Jeremy from Janesville, WI Build Journal

[KCStudly]

Any tested methods for applying the glue?

I just use the small bottles of fast with the tapered tip applicators built in. Stick the tip in the hole and squirt. In soft wood, like cedar, pine and poplar (...I know, poplar is technically categorized as a hard wood species, but it is soft...) you can pretty much fill the hole up and watch it wick in, or poke a toothpick sized sliver (or the pointy tip of a cheap carpenter's compass) in there and work it to the sides. I don't bother for hard woods such as maple and oak, or for places where I am not concerned about future disassembly.

It's an old model plane building trick.

[5speedsoffury]

***Snip***

It's an old model plane building trick.

Thanks KC! So do you dip in the model airplane building? I built one back in high school and am still freaked to take it up in the air. The only hobby that starts as a box of sticks and ends as a bag of sticks. One of these days I will fly that model. But I hope to have someone to buddy box with! I plan to join up with a RC club and fly a cheaper model first!

Anyhow, tonight I did glue up the remaining 5 spar pairs I had cut. boy oh boy I need some more clamps! I can already tell! I sure hope Menards has another big sale on them soon!

Goodnight all! Thanks for following and responding!

Jeremy

[KCStudly]

Every once in a while I like to put together a balsa/tissue/rubber powered free flight. I started scratch building an elec. glider with foam wings and a molded fiberglass "cockpit" pod of my own design, complete with a gear reduction folding prop motor setup, but never finished it. Never was able to justify the cost of a radio setup. I guess I like building them more than flying them.

And yes, they always seem to end up broken in one form or another.

[5speedsoffury]

Hi all!
Back again it's been a slow but steady pace.

KC, thanks for the tips and good conversation! It is good to hear that others enjoy the model airplane hobby.

Ok so good news I got the ShopSmith up and running today. I squared up the table and fence. I was able to edge and rip to size 14 spars. They are just a hair over 1.75 tall. They very slightly in thickness but that is no big deal since they will be sandwiched in the roof. And headliner. I was so giddy to finally put the ShopSmith to use. It performed quite well. There is some chatter in the drive sheaves but they just need to be replaced at some point. They only chatter upon starting in the lower rpms and go away in the higher saw setting. I plan to eventually upgrade to the newer belt drive. But for now the gilmer drive works good.

I have put off the cutting of the doors and headliner recess / blocking material for long enough. I need to get at this portion. I have the outer edge sanded nicely so the sides are an exact match. How big of gap do you leave for the door if you fiberglass the door jam? I also want to smooth up and beef up the door edge I am thinking aluminum for that. I am really open to guidance here as this portion of the build is going to be very new for me!

Here are some pictures to catch up!

[KCStudly]

I left 1/4 inch all around my doors prior to glass work. My plan is to do mock-up and, if needed, trim the hinge side of the door to compensate for the glass.

[5speedsoffury]

I left 1/4 inch all around my doors prior to glass work. My plan is to do mock-up and, if needed, trim the hinge side of the door to compensate for the glass.

Thanks KC! Are you trimming the door edge in aluminum or glassing that? I'm thinking more about glassing since fastening aluminum trim to edge grain of ply just seems less than ideal for long term durability. Also are you using the Steve Frederick inner door seal plan? I like the simplicity for sure but want nice aesthetics too. I would like to do something around the edge of the door just to cover the gap. Even if this cover/trim doesn't seal.

Jeremy

[KCStudly]

No aluminum trim on my exterior (except to hold the rubber cover over the hatch hinge). I will be glassing the door edges, but I'm going to wait and see if I need to trim the doors down first. (When I say "trim" the doors down, I mean run them thru the table saw and shave a bit off to get them to fit again... if needed.)

I should have measured 'before' and 'after' on my curb side door frame, but blasted past and glassed that up without taking good solid 'before' measurements... so I'm glad we are having this conversation. I'll have to be sure to take measurements on the street side before glassing that one. A single layer of 9oz cloth should only add .015 or so (just a guess) on each surface, so maybe 1/16 reduction overall (4 x .015 = .060). Probably won't have to make any adjustments at all.

[5speedsoffury]

No aluminum trim on my exterior (except to hold the rubber cover over the hatch hinge). I will be glassing the door edges, but I'm going to wait and see if I need to trim the doors down first. (When I say "trim" the doors down, I mean run them thru the table saw and shave a bit off to get them to fit again... if needed.)

I should have measured 'before' and 'after' on my curb side door frame, but blasted past and glassed that up without taking good solid 'before' measurements... so I'm glad we are having this conversation. I'll have to be sure to take measurements on the street side before glassing that one. A single layer of 9oz cloth should only add .015 or so (just a guess) on each surface, so maybe 1/16 reduction overall (4 x .015 = .060). Probably won't have to make any adjustments at all.

KC it took me all afternoon to figure out the 1/16 dimension you came up with. I finally figured out 2 jambs and 2 door edges in each axis. Phoee!

I need to get in some practice with fiberglass. I honestly have never done it before and am very nervous to get started. It appears simple enough but that is just before things get sticky. I need some advice on products to use I keep seeing West Systems epoxy out there but boy is that stuff pricey! Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. It is also my understanding that the glass you buy is important too. I plan to glass any edges that are left exposed for reference.

Thanks for following!

Jeremy

[KCStudly]

I had very little experience with glass prior to the work I've been doing on TPCE, but am happy to say that I am pretty pleased with the results I've been getting; so it is doable by a novice.

It isn't cheap, though. At the point I'm at I figure it's going to end up costing about the same as a traditional aluminum skin and trim job... then add the cost of paint.

I chose to use West System for several reasons: quality reputation; readily available locally; and good technical information/support. If you haven't read through their Use Guides, I highly recommend that you do. Even if you decide to use a less expensive brand, it is good info.

Also, I decided to work on my TB first as a confidence building piece, and that turned out to be a good decision. I recommend you pick an aspect of your build or another side project that is smaller (but big enough) and self contained that you can develop your skills on.

Even if you only plan to reinforce your seams with glass tape, all of the above still applies, IMO.

[5speedsoffury]

The Atma trailer build thread is exactly what convinced me too about building the bulkheads first. Just really looks like the way to go.

I am also having same reservations on the Menards 1/8 ply as well. Alexander Lumber in Elkhorn did say they can get 5x5 sheets of 1/8 Baltic Birch for $15.95 a sheet. They can have in 2 days or less, as they get a truck from that supplier every other day. Maybe that helps you?

Later

Mr Lahey,

I just got off the phone with Alexander Lumber. I spoke with Chuck on the 1/8 inch BB it is very cheap but understandably so... It would is not face quality. It is drawer bottom. Material or veneer material. I would steer clear. Check Deppler Wood Shop in Monroe WI. 22 bucks a sheet (SPORD larger quantities) Woodcraft Madison $28 a sheet (SPORD as well).

Jeremy

[skinnedknuckles]

Jeremy,
How did you get ahold of Depplers? I have tried quite a few times and the phone just rings. I used the 1/8" BB ply from Woodcraft in Madison they usually have a good supply on hand so you can pick out the pieces that you want and it is very stable. So you are into model airplanes I should have taken you down in my basement where I have all of mine plus vintage helicopters and model rockets. There is a club field just around the corner and down the street from where I work plus you can fly out at Bong State park by Burlington. Yes, it does happen , you start with a box full of sticks build one and still end up with a box full of sticks when you find out just how hard dirt really is

Have fun making sawdust from across the river
Paul

[5speedsoffury]

Jeremy,
How did you get ahold of Depplers? I have tried quite a few times and the phone just rings. I used the 1/8" BB ply from Woodcraft in Madison they usually have a good supply on hand so you can pick out the pieces that you want and it is very stable. So you are into model airplanes I should have taken you down in my basement where I have all of mine plus vintage helicopters and model rockets. There is a club field just around the corner and down the street from where I work plus you can fly out at Bong State park by Burlington. Yes, it does happen , you start with a box full of sticks build one and still end up with a box full of sticks when you find out just how hard dirt really is

Have fun making sawdust from across the river
Paul

Paul,

I called and he just answered on like the first ring?! I do have a friend who purchases a lot of wood from him. I talked with said friend before making the call. Maybe he gave the heads up? I doubt it though. The guy seemed very nice and down to earth. I most likely will buy through him because of the better grades. I will probably stop in to make my order just to make sure I am getting a good quality product. I have another quote from Home Lumber up in WW but at $16.18 per 1/8" 5x5 I am skeptical of the quality. I am thinking it may be BB/CB grade lumber. I tried to get as many answers as I could on the phone but still don't feel very comfortable. I may order a couple sheets just to give it a whirl but will definitely use better quality stuff on the inside of the teardrop.

Next on the agenda is getting the blocking cut out of the sides. I purchased a 1/8" router bit with a cut depth of 3/8" from menards and gave it a go on a test piece for the edge guide setting. It works well. the only down side is I will either need to flip over the sides to cut the remaining thickness or cut though the center of the slot with a jigsaw and clean everything up with a flush trim bit. I tried a rotozip bit with reducer but the runout on that was crazy!!! I am debating the hatch spar location and have done some looking on the tread. But I could look for days and miss something very important. So here I am asking opinions on where to put it! Basically the location of the hatch spar has two options in my book. The location I like best would be in front of the galley upper cabinets looking from the rear. The other option would be right above the upper galley cabinets and in the same area as the main bulkhead coming up from the floor.

Here are some

75" hatch hinge height option. (the one I like best being that I am tall (79")


70.5" hatch hinge height option. (the one right above the planned bulkhead)

[KCStudly]

The trade offs with hinge location are the height and angle of the back of the hatch when open vs. a shorter more stable hatch structure that does not have the possibility of closing onto something too tall that has been errantly set on the top of the upper cabinet or shelf.

The angle of hatch lift, or rotation, is limited by the length of travel of the hatch struts and their necessary mounting orientation. The longer the hatch, the shorter the strut travel, and the higher the angle of rotation, the closer the strut needs to be to the hinge and therefore the more stress/leverage there is on the hinge.

For me, my hatch profile, the ride height of my trailer frame and the length of the actuators that I happened upon, I decided I would have better head clearance and more rain/shade coverage if I put the hinge close to the galley bulkhead ahead of the upper shelf face frame. I'll be using linear actuators with a smart controller that can reverse direction if resistance is met in closing. I'm not sure where that threshold of force will be yet; a bag of marshmallows might not survive, but hopefully my shelf panels and face frames would survive. Frankly, I figure you have to at least be halfway self aware of any items in the hatch path prior to attempting to close the hatch anyway, so that was less of a deciding factor for me... you know, versus hitting your head on the corner of the hatch.

[5speedsoffury]

KC,

First off I want to thank you for posting on my build forum and offering up very well thought out advice. It is very much appreciated!

I am set on the higher hatch spar mount. Your post confirms my decision. Although I have not gone into extensive thought about hatch support I am confident if I don't figure something out one of the awesome members of this forum will have some advice. I have settled happily on the higher hatch mount because back when I owned my Forester there was nothing more frustrating then smacking my head on the rear hatch. This teardrop is a larger one being five feet tall or so and that leaves no reason for me to have to duck when in the rear galley area. I also laid out my 13 spars tonight. They very in distance from 8 to 13 inches on center. I put them where I feel they will provide the most benefit for the structure and roof features. I plan the roof to have a powered roof vent, stargazer window(to appease the wife) and Yak mounts for Yakima cross bars. The cross bars may possibly be used for a solar panel mount or on second thought may not be used at all but it will be nice to have the hardware mounted so in the event I do want to put something on the roof I can! I can always pick up the towers later on. Two of the oak spars will be used for the Yack mounts. The other two will be used for the hatch spar and front toe kick.

Thanks for following!

Jeremy

[5speedsoffury]

Hi all!

It's an exciting time! I have started to cut out the headliner ledge and blocking. I also made the judgement to shorten the walls 1.5" by removing from the bottom with a circular saw and edge guide. It will just make the front look better and shorten the galley counter height to a manageable height. The hatch will be just a little shorter when open but that can be adjusted slightly with the lift height if necessary. I need to work on the front edge of the floor and the front toe kick to make them match the front curve. I feel confident that I will start making quicker progress as long as I am able to acquire materials that I need in a timely manner. Some of this build can get pricey but I need to draw the line in the sand of what I want and what I need to have in the build.

I need to wire the walls for the features I decide. I want to ask the more savvy is it necessary to have the side markers on the side of the walls? Or is it acceptable to have them on the trailer frame sides? For reference my sides I plan to attach them on top of the floor and the skins will come down to the bottom of the floor.

Jeremy