Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

[Mr. Lahey]

The 3rd order of hatch struts got here today. So I tried them out. The 60#'s were too weak. They raised the hatch but needed help up the last 2-3 inches. Not strong at all in full up position. The 70#'s are 90% right. Raise the hatch fine at it's current weight. However the hatch will get heavier as it gets skinned and so forth. So I think 80# will nail it. Even with hatch at full finished weight.

However that's not the main issue. The main problem is that the struts push against the hatch when it's in the full closed position. If I don't hold the hatch shut, it begins to open on it's own the moment I take my hands off. That happens with any pressure struts I've had on it. So it will get a tad worse with the 80# struts. The push isn't horrible. My latching system will keep it in check and shut. The opening force is not distorting the hatch or hinge. However it's still not the right way. The hatch will be stressed the whole time it's closed.

So I've read many posts about struts here again. The ones that say that at some point the struts help close the hatch all say the struts have to over center on closing to do that. Below is a pic's of my struts and hatch in the closed position.

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As I look at that pic I can't see how I will ever get them to over center. Even though they have a good downward angle you can see how in their current position the force applied will want to lift the hatch. If you imagine moving the strut hatch attach point further down the hatch, to increase strut down angle, won't the force applied still want to push the hatch open? Looks like it to me.

I have some room to raise the wall mount point but not much. However now I'm really going to be lifting the hatch even higher at full open. Here is a pic at full open. Right now there is 6'4" head clearance at hatch low point. I can drop and inch or two or raise an inch or two, but that's about it.

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I have such long struts because I need to lift this hatch high to get enough headroom at hatch full open. The higher wall mount point is best for my layout to keep the strut and mount out of the way of my spare tire.

I have seen struts mounted on the wall back far at the edge of the counter. With hatch mount point much closer to hinge than I have. I may be able to use that layout with the strut mounted low and way back on the wall, as long as the wall mount point gets no lower than about the level of that black screwdriver handle in the pic above. Any lower and my spare tire won't roll past the strut mount when I need to take it out.

So do I just live with a hatch that's wanting to push itself open? It does work. Or make myself nuts with more attempts?

So far I am stumped, frustrated and losing patience with this. Any input would be appreciated. Right now I don't care if I end up with swiss cheese galley walls. Which way do I move which mount points to get this working right?

[lincolnlerner]

Can you move the struts toward the end away from the hinge? It should take a lot if stress away and use lighter forces.

[Mr. Lahey]

Stayed at it till late last night. Did a layout for strut mount points as shown on the forum strut calculator thread. The low rearward wall mount point just won't work with me. The strut will interfere with my spare tire coming out of it's slot.

This morning I've been fooling with the hatch a bit more as is. I think I may just stick with what I've got. After a good night's sleep last night the frustration level is way down. So looking at things with a much clearer head, it's not all that bad a situation. First off the upward strut push on the hatch when closed is really minimal. I would guess under 5lbs of force. The hatch or hinge is not distorted at all from this force. Second is the current mount points stay well clear of the spare tire area. Third is I've got the head room under hatch I need when it's open. Fourth is the double latch system I am going to use will keep the hatch shut tight no matter what.

Staying clear of that spare tire area with the struts, and head room under hatch when it's open is what is most important to me. This setup is doing that. I think I'm going to accept the self opening hatch feature as a necessary compromise to get what I need in other areas. So unless someone chimes in with another way to do this, this is how it will be.

Just finished laying out the upper interior cabinet face frame and doors. Headed back out there now to cut them out. Just perfect weather today to work out in the shop.

[lincolnlerner]

Looks great! Only question is how strong a force is transmitted to the hinges when open and the wind blows it further open. Maybe a pole locking it in place may help?
Where will first camp be!

[Mr. Lahey]

No worries on the wind/hatch thing. The struts are at full extension. So the hatch can't blow backwards. If it ever does blow backwards, I'm camping in a tornado with my hatch open. Serves me right.

First few shakedown camping runs will be local here in Wisconsin. First major road trip will be to Pennsylvania to see Frank Lloyd Wrights masterpiece home. I hope the date shown is accurate for a fall trip there. It's kind of my goal, we shall see how that goes.

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[breb]

Sounds like you have compromised and accepted the function of your hatch . You had me thinking about it for awhile last night. I even ran outside to check the lid on my truck cap. then I typed out a response to your post , hit review and back browser button and lost it all . To late to last night to type it all out again. I'm hoping that I have room for those struts or I'll being using a brace/ fixed strut to hold up hatch. I picked up flooring last night ,brought home tried it out and didn't like the match between the woods so back it went. Settled on something else. Then I was going to lay it out and the drop floor had to be re figured for trim so I started cutting the lid for the drop box and I had to stop and search for some type of aluminum I could use for trimming . Think I found at box store I'll have to check out tomorrow. I called on sheet stock this morning ( counter top) and still isn't delivered to store now they say next week Thursday. I finished with 2 coats of finish on two panel doors for galley today.

[DaddyJeep]

First major road trip will be to Pennsylvania to see Frank Lloyd Wrights masterpiece home. I hope the date shown is accurate for a fall trip there. It's kind of my goal, we shall see how that goes.

2019n_cal22_480x480.jpg

Falling Waters is cool. I might be going down in that neighborhood in October for a Jeep Event.

[Mr. Lahey]

breb- Nice job on the galley! Looks super. From what I can see in your pic, you may have an easier time with the struts than me. I think the mount method used in the hatch strut calculator thread here should work like a champ for you. Looks like you have the room to mount the struts far to the rear, and have them push forward as shown below. I snatched the drawing from that thread to post here. Plus many folks have had success using that method, and the calculator. So hope it works for you. That type of set up just wont work for me.

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D Jeep- Saw your build thread before. Very cool build and how you intend to use it.

Had a bit of progress here too today. Got all my rear upper cabinet face and doors fitted. The bottom of the cabinet door openings are up about 5" from the actual bottom of the cabinet. They need to be that way to clear the A/C slide frame on the right cabinet, and the pocket on the galley side that my folding camp table slides into. So I had a 5" strip all along the bottom of cabinet I wanted to do something with.

So I stole some inspiration from the Frank Lloyd Wright lamps I made for the headboard cabinets. I copied a geometric border pattern from the lamp design, and ran it along that whole bottom edge of the foot board cabinets. I cut up a bunch of small blocks of wood as required. Then I clamped the upper and lower rails of the border in place on the cabinet face. I gave all the blocks and the FLW lamp cover to the girlfriend and said okay go for it. Fill in the the space between the rails with these blocks. Copy his design layout. She did a great job and nailed it. I like it a lot. I'll get some photo's up when it's done.

[breb]

Sounds like you did the Wright thing! I have to thank you because that's the first time I've seen that hatch calculator and know it will help me set up the gas struts, which I really want to use on my hatch. Wanting to lay the flooring I spent a whole lot of time today on that aluminum trim for the drop box and still haven't cut the inner trim for the lid. I had that lid in and out more then a few times tweaking the length by the width where i think i have the right spacing between and a little gap for easy in and out. Who would have thought it would take me all afternoon. I should have frequent runner miles . A lot of my equipment is in the basement ( saws, drill press etc) so up and down I go. I'd like to see that filler with the lamp design . You definitely have some great features added to your build .

[KCStudly]

Mr. L, can you make the 'P' shaped bracket where the strut attaches to the back/hatch end have a deeper bump in the 'P'. In other words, move that end further in toward the rib profile center point, further below the rib. You need that anchor point to cross the line between the hinge center and the fixed end of the strut on the cabin wall, in order for the forces to dwell or go opposite. This might have the effect of lifting your hatch higher, so moving the wall side attachment point up a hair could bring the lifted height back down a bit (cancelling back to the lift height you have now).

[Mr. Lahey]

KC-Thanks for the tip as always. I think I see what you are talking about. The hatch attach point brackets are just screwed in place. So I can whip up something else and give it a whirl. I have time tomorrow and may just do so.

breb-

Who would have thought it would take me all afternoon.

I have said that so many times to myself in the course of this project.

[breb]

KC 's thought on the P bracket sounds interesting. Another position to try for mounting. A little step forward today. I bumped out the interior flooring and hoping to move onto the galley floor tomorrow. Also received notice my sheet of laminate for the countertop came in.

[Mr. Lahey]

KC you out there?

can you make the 'P' shaped bracket where the strut attaches to the back/hatch end have a deeper bump in the 'P'. In other words, move that end further in toward the rib profile center point, further below the rib. You need that anchor point to cross the line between the hinge center and the fixed end of the strut on the cabin wall,

Is this what you are talking about?

The red line is drawn from center of hinge thru wall mount point. If I have to get the hatch mount point, the yellow line, to cross that line, we are talking about an impossibly massive P bracket to do that. Or am I on the wrong track again?

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breb-floor and trap door lookin good

[breb]

Mr. Lahey if I could join in on this strut positioning . Reviewing what you sent me. It kinda confirms my thoughts. It looks like you are under tension by the position of the the three points you have setup here ( meaning your hinge point , and both mounting points of the strut) are not in line. Don't you want the red line aligning on the same axis with all three points? This configuration aimed at the imaginary line you want between the hinge point and the bottom of the hatch and it would achieve a neutral tension or even if it where negative of that line possibly draw that hatch in a little when closed. I also think of a parallel line achieved and by what spacing you have from that line. I have seen larger bump outs then what you have in your lower mounting point. I know your going through trial and error here to get the height and that neutral at you hatch bottom. These are just thoughts and I have not locked my brain into this yet I'm still not there.

[KCStudly]

Yeah ^^ that's what I was thinking.

I think the angle of the pic is exaggerating the disparity a little. Even if you can't get them to align, if you can cheat the upper mount closer to the wall profile edge, and extend the 'P' down to some sort of aesthetic practical limit, it might be enough to get close enough to that dwell point that it is not pushing up as hard (even once you finalize your strut rating).

Also, on the subject of strut ratings, don't forget some people have had good luck using mix matched strut ratings to fine tune their hatches. I would try to avoid this because it can put twisting loads on, but if say an 80 lb on one side and a 70 lb on the other does the trick (and you have good lateral stability in your hatch) it might hit a sweet spot. Of course, in this example two 75 lb'ers would be preferred. (I wouldn't get too crazy with this, don't try to mix a 60 and a 40, or a 50 and a 100.) These are just examples, I'm not trying to predict what your final struts will be, just saying.