Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby pchast » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:54 pm

Beautiful job. :thumbsup:
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:59 am

Thanks guys. I appreciate the encouragement.

Few wins and one loss from yesterday. It took a bunch of little cleats ( my least favorite job) installed here and there in the upper part of the cabinets to support the ceiling panel. Did not want to float any edges of the panel. So I cut and installed cleats. Good thing is I was able to use a large piece of 1/8 ply that I had cut too short earlier in the project. The cabinets had a nice place where I could put a seam in the ceiling panel. Which let me use that wrong cut panel I had. Cabinet ceilings came out great.

Had to straighten up the shop and set up some more sawhorses to make a bigger work table. I needed a place to glue up and butt joint the cabin ceiling panels. Spent some time picking the most interesting grain pattern plywood sheets in my stash. Then looked at which two panels would look the best butt together at the joint. Got that sorted out and cut the panels to size. They are glued up on the work table now with every heavy object in the shop placed on top of the glued seam.

The loss was my recycled stainless counter top. It failed the girlfriend inspection miserably. Absolutely positively no way would it pass. What I thought was "patina" and "charm" she thought was scratches and stains. So I picked up a piece of zinc plated steel sheet to cut a new top from. I must admit the new scratch and stain free metal will look nice in my new teardrop. Plus it's the same stuff I've seen used in the older teardrops I'm patterning after. So not too bad a loss after all.

Finally got my supply run done too. Picked up the material for all my roof spars and vent fan frame work. More cleat work to come today. Have to final prep the front bulkhead cabinet for the ceiling panel. Plus have to add two small shelves on the electrical side of cabinet for my 12v/120v inverter and my battery maintainer. Then I will be good to go to get the rest of the ceiling installed.
My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:34 pm

Sorry for your loss. ( Stainless steel sheet stock) I included the wife when I picked material for counter top. It's all glued in, no changes now
Closing in the ceiling will give the TD a whole new feeling. I know when I installed the 1/8 sheet stock . It defined that space. Hinge almost
complete. I have to pilot drill the hardwood cross member for screws that go into the roof portion of the hurricane hinge and i could probably try the hinge . I will have to wait till I have more hands to help slide the hinges together . I don't want botch that hinge . It''s always good when you can use up the left overs. That butt joint was something I stressed over in the beginning. I didn't want to see any seems. In fact I do have some piece's on the TD that are scarfed together which was not easy and I developed a jig to adapted to my circular saw . Some came out fine and others not so much to my liking. I resolved to butt joining and capping the seem with trim. A lot less stress.
Hinge progress for me
156165156166
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:46 pm

breb-

When you put your ceiling in did you glue and face nail the panel inside to the spars?
Or glue to the spars, and brace from floor to ceiling at spars till glue set, no nails?

I'm contemplating gluing the spars to the panel while it's on the work table. Weight them down till it dries. Then lift panel and spars into place. No nails.
My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:07 pm

Mr. Lahey I see what your thinking of. Interesting way of going at it . Do you have a ledge along your inside wall? Hard to say on that method. Weather it will lay flat for you. I had all my spars in place and dry fit my sheet stock a couple of times. Then I glued with PL 3
and used 1/4 inch crown staple on perimeter and held the staples close to edge. I also new that I would be trimming those areas and covering the staples. which I did a couple of day's ago. As far as the butt join I did the same , using glue at the seam and stapling both sides of the panels seam . It is now covered with a 2.00" wide piece of flat trim 1/8 inch birch ply. This area is where I didn't want a seam I wanted to scarf that joint but the scarf joints weren't coming out as good as i needed specially if I'm laying in the TD and staring at it. I braced from the floor to the panel , which I could do because spars were already lock in place. this photo doesn't include all the bracing I had employed.156178151067
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:47 pm

Yep I've got a 1" wide ledge 2" down from top surface of the tear on the inside of the walls. The ceiling panel and spars lay on it. I can't take credit on the glue the spars to panel then lift it thing. I learned that here, on a couple other build threads of other builders. They seemed to do okay using that route. I'm pretty sure it's they way I'm going to go.

First I'm going to test fit the panel after work tomorrow. I cut it a tad narrow and a tad short so it has some wiggle room on the ledge. If I can get it centered in the opening pretty good, and bend clean through the front curve, I'll mark it for the spars. They are cut and fit to thickness and width required and waiting. My concern with this method is it's an 8' run from back to front. Plus it has to wrap around the front curve. If it starts to run cockeyed through the run, it could get ugly. Especially with the spars glued to it.

It should be okay as the ceiling panel is supported in the back by a rail across the upper cabinets. Then it lays on the front bulk head which supports it on that end. I would have 1 spar between the rear cabinet and my vent fan frame. Then the vent fan frame work. Then 2 more spars between the fan frame and front bulkhead. A tad less than 5' ceiling length in the cabin. So I won't have multiple spars glued to the full length of the panel. Just those over the cabin area.

The rest of the panel after the front bulkhead is supported by the curved front cabinet dividers for its full length. It will just be glued and stapled to those dividers. The spars added in later without too much worry about panel sag since the cabinet dividers are about 16" apart.

So if the panel trial fits okay, I'm going to keep on with those prior builders method. I'll flip the panel face up on the table. Mask off the panel edges that rest on the ledge that get glued at install. Then sand, stain, and finish the panel on the table. Flip it over when its dry and glue on the spars. Then put it in place???? I hope so. I'm as apprehensive over this ceiling as I was with building the hatch.
My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:23 pm

Your ledge is key with the ply resting on it. Then the other element to this is to have the right amount of spars glued in so there is no sag in ceiling. I have a small amount of wave in mine lengthwise not width wise. Which I attribute to the tension built into bending that sheet stock around the curved front. It works fine and the little gap I have got covered by trim. It sounds like you have enough contact points to keep the ceiling ply in place. I probably would make sure the spars are true on there length . I used poplar and jointed and milled them to a true straight stick. Not sure what kind of glue you intend on using for this. I like the PL 3 for it's give on the radius and it's gap filling ability. If your going with PL 3 I would do your glue up but let it setup over night, like I did on the hatch skin the other day. Give it a chance before you go bending it around the curved front. This maybe much less of a headache then you think. You already cut for a little clearance on sides, so unless the sides are out of wack this should fit in it's planned location. :thumbsup:
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby tony.latham » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:58 am

I’ve seen somebody on this forum glue the spars to the ceiling first and they pulled it off. Can’t recall who it was.

I put the ceiling in, lay a bead of PL on a spar, screw it down on top to the ledge. Then I’ll then hold the ceiling up tight with a padded 1x2 and crown staple it. Looks fine

T
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:02 pm

Thanks breb and Tony..I have still had no time to get out there to work. I did get a few minutes before work today to stare at it a bit. What dawned on me is I've been so focused on the inside ceiling spars. It occurred to me that I've paid no attention to their location for the exterior roof panels. Those exterior panels will need a seam. So I'll want a spar under that seam to staple to also. So I'm going to re look at spar layout tomorrow morning first thing. I also think I'm just going to glue the fan frame to the ceiling panel outside on the table. That should help quite a bit from keeping the panel from sagging when I install it. Then I'll install the other few spars using the T prop from inside like you both mentioned you did.
My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Jordan87 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:51 pm

I had the same problem. Just added a 2x2 spar for the outer seam when I found it. It was about 6 or so inches behind the inner seam.

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:36 pm

Finally got a chance to test fit the ceiling panel. The funny thing is my biggest worry about installing it did not materialize. I was worried the center of the panel would sag quite a bit. Turns out it was not a problem at all. So based on that I'm not going to try gluing spars or vent fan frame to the panel before install. Just prop the panel up to the spar from inside.

I might also wait a session or two to install the ceiling panel now too. I ended up doing more work than I thought to the headboard cabinet. I needed to make some shelves for my battery charger and 12v inverter. As I worked on the cabinet I saw that it would be much easier to get certain parts of the wiring done now. While the whole back of the cabinet is wide open. Other wise I would have to come at the work from inside the tear through the access trap door. Not quite as easy that way.

Got the ceiling panel on the work table. It's maked off and has been stained. Just got the first coat of finish on it. Had to come in the house to cool off. Can't run my fan with that wet finish coat. Way too hot and humid out there to keep at anything else without that big fan on.
My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:45 pm

Here is a current update photo. I held off installing my ceiling panel until I can get the front cabinet fully wired. It holds the all the major components for my electrical system. So there is a good bit to do there. It's going fairly well. Much easier to work from the wide open back side of cabinet. The major components are all placed and mounted and I've been running some wires as required. Somewhat slow going as I crimp and solder all terminal ends. I do not trust crimp on terminal ends.

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My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:56 pm

I don't trust crimping for terminals either unless there exposed and i can get right to them. Even then it doesn't take much to solder and its a long lasting connection. It does take a lot of time routing the wire and looking ahead when things get covered. I picked up a couple of T handles and I'm working on the locking mechanism . I have a lot of the wiring for tail lights done and the dome light on hatch. I will finish locks and then skin hatch on inside. I had a lot of the wiring from front to back completed . I needed to drop the wires down through the ceiling and in the general area where the PD 4045 panel will be located. I started with the trailer tail lights and then a couple of leads for the dome light. The rest will follow shortly. It looks like you have a good jump on it , keep plugging. :)
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:56 pm

Haven't had much time to work on the tear for several days. Few hours here and there. I did get all the front cabinet wiring done. That let me get the ceiling panel installed today. It went fairly well. Here's a pic of the interior with the ceiling in. Next session I'll cut out the hole for the vent fan.

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My teardrop camper build journal: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:22 am

Mr. Lahey I like the shine on that ceiling, well done. It must feel good to get past this part of the build. Are you cutting the vent/fan hole from bottom or are you coming at it from the top and follow a frame. I treated myself to a Japanese style pull cut saw for that part , it worked well and have used it many times since. I have to order struts for my hatch and recall you went through E bay with not a good experience . Who did you finally end up sourcing struts through? My hatch is complete on the T-handle locking and some wiring . I used calculator and know where I need to be in length and App. weight of strut . Just a matter of mounting.




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