Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:15 pm

Bummer on your hinges being delayed. However we both have enough work to skip around to when delayed in another spot. It all needs doing. Perseverance seems to be key to get one of these campers completed.

I now have all the outer frame work for the hatch cut and fit. The new upper oak hatch edge is glued and screwed to the hatch ribs. Both inner face hatch ribs are fit to the upper oak edge. I've got the bottom oak seal rail cut to length. Now I have to install the positive stop for the weatherstrip gap to the bottom seal rail. Once I have the frame perimeter glued and screwed together I'll start to fit the center ribs. I also think I'm going to corner glue block the heck out of the rib attachment points to the rails. I have to screw into plywood end grain to attach these ribs. I want to back that up with glue blocks too.

Hope to get a few more hours in on it tomorrow.
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:49 pm

I'm having a problem fitting center ribs of hatch. I have a detailed post about the problem in the construction tips section of the site. If you think you can help please have a look at that post.

Thanks!

link: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=70564
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:55 pm

Seems I've finding my way out of the woods with fitting these hatch ribs.

Finally got the hatch ribs 95% dry fit and ready to install. I say 95% because there is a high spot or two. Going to run the straight edge over it a few more times when frame is glued up and completed, then touch it up with the belt sander where needed.

So I have all the hatch frame apart again today to hit most of the galley frame work edges with the router and a 1/8 round over bit. Plus doing much of the final sanding of all those parts too. I won't be skinning the inside of hatch so I want it to look decent when open. So I spent some time to detail it up a bit with the router.

Got the left side inner galley rib glued, clamped and stapled to the outer rib and weather strip channel. Ran out of clamps and had to wait a bit to do other side. Cut the piano hinge for the hatch and rounded the corners off the hinge overhang. Headed back out to the shop again to take the clamps off that rib and assemble the rib on the other side.
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:45 pm

Hope your rib construction is going well for you and you have solved your problems. I have been stuck in the interior. loads of things going on around here and some travel time last weekend. This morning even though I have myself a nasty head cold. I headed out and finished the cabinet's (Interior) . In fact I probably could start to finish trim that area. That drawer took a lot of time last week between finish clear coat, building and installing. I now can move onto galley cabinet's and counter top.155080155079155078155077
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:36 am

Your cabinets came out first rate. Really like the hickory grain patterns. Must be really sharp in person, to look that good in the pictures.

I'm still sloggin it out on the hatch frame. The rib with the clamps on it was still a tad low. So I have a thin strip glued in place. Final fit on that rib when I get home from work today. I've got the rest of the ribs on the money. I've straight edge checked these suckers every 4" all the way down the curve. Right on target. So I've got it handled but it sure was a long road to get here.

Otherwise it's been going pretty good. I went corner glue block crazy with the frame and ribs. It really stiffened and solidified things. It's a big hatch. 5' wide and just short of 5' long. So I want it as rigid as I can get it.

Have had a bit of fun though. I got my hatch spring bolts and locking T handle dry fit. Works like a champ. I was so happy with it I must have turned the handle and locked an unlocked it a zillion times. Probably need new parts already. May have worn these out. :lol:

So after I fit that last rib today, it's on to the rest of the cross bracing. That should go pretty smoothly.

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:33 am

Did you cut all of your rib's at the same time? The strip that you used to fill , is it about an 1/8" thick. Guessing from the photo. These are the detail's I'm talking about that get fussy . When you don't have a print in front of you to go by. You walk into this expecting to go over it again and again. I think the finial out come is where it show's up and pay's off , Specially if you take the extra time. Your corner gussets should hold things in place . I'm hoping that my alignment on my side walls is true. That I have every thing squared up. I won't know till I get to that point. You are not covering the inside of the hatch from some of your last post's . That may allow you to spring the hatch slightly for locking and sealing. I'm thinking non of these hatch's mate up 100% to there seals in a relaxed state and there is some flex going on to accommodate when you lock or latch .
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:56 pm

Couldn't cut all the ribs at once. Don't have a saw to take six pieces of 3/4" material in a stack. However I did stack them all together when cut and shaped them on the skin surface to match as a set. The rib shape was not the trouble.

For me the problem came when attaching the ribs at top and bottom of frame. Even though I clamped them in place, and trued them up, they shifted slightly when glued and screwed to the frame. You could see them draw up a bit when the screws hit home. That's all it takes and you are off the straight edge somewhere in the curve. Plus the drew up a bit at the top and bottom when screwed in place.

It's not like its way out of whack. The one rib was off just a tad less than an 1/8. So I glued the strip and will sneak up on it with the belt sander. Just took some additional TLC to get it right again. I don't see where I may have operational or twist trouble at all.

I think once I get all the cross braces in and it's all framed, I'm going to attach the hinge and free it from the sidewalls, and open it up. I think I'm going to start working with the gas lift supports before the hatch is skinned. Need to measure open lengths and look at attach points etc. Because of the sharp curve at the tail of the hatch going to have to lift it high, to get 6+ feet of headroom under the low point of hatch.

I may also wire it then too. Looks much easier to wire all exposed. Then close it up, mount it back to the side walls, and skin it.

Headed out there now. Upper 80's in temp and super humid. Plus late afternoon sun is right in the garage door when open. Got a box fan in a back window, pointed right at me. We will see how long I last.
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby lincolnlerner » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:40 pm

Wonder how much "flex" the ribs encounter when bolted to the hinge and bottom side. And if the deviation is in the same spot for each rib. That's in addition to any miniscule changes when cut to fit each end, which is magnified...
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:32 pm

Well it seems I caught a lucky break with fitting that last rib. Took off the clamps and checked it with the straight edge. It was spot on in all but 2 places. I lightly hit those 2 spots with the belt sander. Bam! It was right on the money with its neighbors. All the way through the curve. Don't think I spent 3 minutes total on that final rib fit.

So that gave me time to work on cross braces. Got 2 rows in all the way across. Doing a staggered box pattern. It's coming out real rigid. Getting real strong with each brace I add.

Not bad progress for a hot and muggy session after work.

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:10 am

Without a skin you will probably find that your hatch frame is quite flexible in a twisting direction (bottom corners lifting unevenly relative to hinge line). My advice would be to only lift and prop directly in the middle and to do it carefully. It might also be a good idea to take a couple of narrow strips of thin plywood (dropped scrap pieces would do fine) and temporarily screw those on a diagonal 'X' to the profile (from top left to bottom right, and vice versa).

My hatch is fairly large with larger radius than yours; I have 4 deep ribs with minimal x-bracing, an exposed "inner" skin of 5mm ply on top of that (similar to your outer skin), 1-1/2 thk foam, and 2 plies of 6oz epoxy/FG outer skin. Before I added the foam and outer glass it was fairly flexible to twist; afterward not so much.
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:29 pm

Thanks for the heads up KC. I think I'll just leave it in place. I can still wire it where it is. Since I still don't have the ceiling in place I can still see into the galley through the upper cabinets. So I can watch the hatch struts from there once the hatch is skinned.
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 pm

Reached a milestone with this hatch today. It's framed and ready for the next steps. I'm going to take a lunch break and plot out where I'm going to run the hatch wires. Then I'm going to drill all the wiring pass through holes. After that I'll run the straight edge over it every 4 inches through the curve one last time. Touch up if needed with the belt sander. Then run the palm sander over all of the frame so it's ready to polyurethane.

Tomorrow the girlfriend will be here. So I hope the two of us can skin it with the plywood. The extra set of hands for that job should be a big help.

Real hot and humid today. Yesterday I picked up a commercial 30" pedestal fan. Moves 9700cfm on high. Had it on high all day, and a little 20"box fan pointed right at me. The big fan really helped with overall temp of garage. The little one made all the difference for personal comfort. Could not work out there today any other way.

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:20 pm

What are you using for thickness on your ply skin on the hatch? Are you going to glue and staple? Seems like you have a good fit going. The bracing in between ribs looks solid. The skin should tie everything together. Between heat and head cold I lost 4 days on my project. Went down to pick up more hickory yesterday at Kettle moraine wood mill and when I got back to the house. I see i had unused hickory planks standing vertical next to my utility door . ( Unaccounted for). Then I new i wasn't going to work on anything that needed my serious attention. Today we took are walk , still a little warm out in garage , I will head to basement to cut up piece's for galley cabinet structure. Wife and I went to check out counter top material Saturday and I still have not locked down what I want to use. Keep plugging you look well on your way to the finish line.
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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby Mr. Lahey » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:30 pm

Got the big part of the hatch skinned today. Was very glad my girlfriend was here to help. The job just takes more hands than one person has.
It's skinned with 3mm birch plywood, PL adhesive, and stapled to ribs. The whole bottom edge I ended up screwing to the rail with 1" construction screws. The curve is a tight one. Plus it's a short distance from the high spot of curve to the bottom rail. A lot of leverage there from that short distance. The force wanted to rip the staples through the plywood. Screws did a much better job.

So after all the fuss fitting the ribs I'm happy with the results. You can sight across the hatch and it's not wavy, or shows any low spots. Just a nice smooth curve.

breb-too bad on the head cold. Few things are worse than being sick on a real hot day. I am undecided if I'm just going to leave my counter top plywood/polyurethane finish or surface it with something. If anything I may metal skin it. I'm trying for the basic bare bones look of the 1930's-40's teardrop campers. That's why the grainy fir plywood in the galley. I've also seen some of those old teardrops with metal surfaced counters.

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Re: Kenskill style build in Delavan, WI (Now Cub Modern)

Postby breb » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:37 pm

The ply skin looks like it took to the curved shape. I can concur with the wishing for more hands when you need them. Specially when I have to line something up and the glue is setting . I had something similar when i put in the interior walls and some of the 1/4" crown staples wanted to bury to deep, :thumbsup: almost going through ply in spots. I used PL 300 and it did allow for some time to line up but it also was skinning over in a short period of time. I actually picked up a wide crown stapler for doing the roof and hatch skin. I'm not a 100% sure I will use it in that process yet , i'll have to do some more testing. I spent a full day on the teardrop . I finished putting in the double roller catches in the interior cabinets and then moved to the galley cutting some more pc's for the cabinets and milling some hickory for the upper face frame. You must be ready to attach your hinge.
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