A different kind of pop-up (11-5-17) fixing lessons learned

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Re: A different kind of pop-up (5-11-16 lift system works)

Postby rustytoolss » Sun May 15, 2016 5:55 pm

I can't wait to see your progress getting walls added. 8)
Mostly Old Parts And Rust= MOPAR
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Re: A different kind of pop-up(6-9-16)rear wall/front wall

Postby les45 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:14 pm

Lots of travel lately so the going is slow. Finally got the rear wall rebuilt. It had some significant water damage in the right corner which affected several cross pieces so I removed the entire rear wall and essentially replaced all the wood. The front and rear walls were lined with a heavy fiberboard that served as a backing for the aluminum skin. I ended up tossing the rear fiberboard as it was rotted along with the wood. I added new plywood to replace the fiberboard as a reinforcement for the skin. I am repurposing the 5/8" treated plywood that was used on the rollout beds.

Damage was extensive and extended into most of the cross members.
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Closeup of damaged corner.
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All rebuilt and ready for skin. The bottom plywood panels were added to replace the fiberboard.
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Skin re-installed over new frame and corner trim pieces fit perfectly. These will get lots of caulk later.
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The fiberboard in the front wall looked worse than it was. It had lots of water stains but very little actual damage. I couldn't stand to look at the unsightly stains so I simply painted the fiberboard with two coats of Kilz. Simply a cosmetic issue.

Front wall before:
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Front wall after painting:
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I decided after completing the end walls that I would start the painting of the shell and top. This involved dropping the roof, putting the new tires and wheels on the new Dexter axle, and taking the trailer down off all the support blocks. I then pulled the trailer out of the garage and turned it around in order to start removing the pin stripes on the side that I had not previously done. That will be my workload for the next few days. One thing to note on this effort was the installation of the new wheels on the Dexter axle. I had always used spring axles with lug nuts and this was the first time I had used lug bolts. Dexter sends a set of bolts with a little dab of Loctite. This plus the paint in the threads on the flange make the first install a hard one. It was bad enough trying to hit the holes with the bolts but turning them was a major chore. I ended up using a cheater bar on my socket wrench while chocking the tire with both of my feet. Those bolts will not come loose like the nuts on the HF trailers.

New tires installed and ready to roll (at least far enough to turn it around and back in the garage for painting)
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (6-9-16) rear wall/front wal

Postby rustytoolss » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:12 pm

Doing the job right takes time, but well worth it :thumbsup:
Mostly Old Parts And Rust= MOPAR
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (6-9-16) rear wall/front wal

Postby retep » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:52 am

You do very very nice work. I am enjoying watching you progress on the pop up. You and so many others on here are a great inspiration to so many. Thanks for sharing your build with us and keep up the great work.

Peter
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (6-9-16) staples everywhere

Postby les45 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:54 am

While I'm scraping decals in the summer heat and preparing to paint the exterior, I thought I would go back and point out another little PITA that I encountered while cleaning out the interior of the cabin. Apparently Jayco loved staples and they used them for everything from interior paneling and exterior skins to even some very long ones in the structural framing. One day recently I decided to remove all the interior staples that were left when I pulled out all the paneling. This would be necessary later when I install my new paneling. That soon became an all day job. No matter how many times you went over the work, you would always find some that you missed later. Although I did use staples to secure the top and bottom of the metal skin when I rebuilt the rear wall, I plan to use only screws and glue on all my interior work.

Staples hold the metal skins in place under the edge trim. I did use staples in this application when I rebuilt the rear wall.
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These little boogers were everywhere. I probably could have just beat them down with a hammer, but my OCD wouldn't let me. I did beat down some of the rusty ones that broke off when I tried to pry them.
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Tools of the day for removing staples.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (7-15-16) too hot to paint

Postby les45 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:44 pm

I planned to start my exterior painting after I finished rebuilding the rear wall but the weather just won't cooperate. We've had 95 degree days for two weeks now and no relief in sight. The humidity is too high to paint in the early morning and, as the humidity goes down, the temp goes up during the day. I managed to get one coat of Zinsser oil based primer on but it was drying on my brush so I decided not to apply the final coats just yet. In the meantime, I have completed some tongue box storage to hold my jack stands. I wanted to keep the heavy metal bracket that formerly held two propane tanks since it was welded to the tongue frame and probably gives it some additional strength. I filled the bracket with two pieces of marine grade plywood (salvaged from the pullout beds) and bolted two battery boxes to the boards. I got a good deal on the battery boxes from Walmart online for $5 each shipped free to my local store. I'm using bungee cords to hold the lids down. I've changed my order of work to move on to my electrical system (AC and DC) but before I start that I had to strip the old vinyl flooring. That was a slightly tedious effort that took about three hours but it is now complete. I plan to install the electrical components under one of the dinette seats. The dinette seats and all the other interior furnishings (table, bed, and galley cabinet) will be modular so they can be easily removed to work on the hoisting system.

The old propane tank bracket provided strength to the frame so I kept it and used it to support two battery boxes for tongue storage.
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The tank bracket is filled with painted marine grade plywood and the battery boxes are bolted to the plywood using long strap washers. Bungees hold the lids down.
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The boxes will be used to store the tongue stand and the four stabilizer jacks.
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Old vinyl flooring is stripped and ready to start interior electrical.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (5-11-16 lift system works)

Postby les45 » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:54 pm

Alan_H wrote:Congrats on getting it "lifted"!

I meant to respond to the post back in March. I bet that metal strap is a grounding strap for your frame.


I responded to this previously but at that time I still didn't know what the strap was for. After removing the vinyl flooring, I found that it is used to splice two pieces of plywood that make up the floor deck. You can see in this pic that there is a line on the right side where a full 5X10 sheet is connected to a 2X10 sheet in order to get the overall floor dimensions of 7X10. The plywood is fastened to the metal strap below with self tapping metal screws at irregular intervals ranging from 12" to 15". Some screws go into the cross frame but the strap is used for connections between the frame members.

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Re: A different kind of pop-up (7-15-16) framing done

Postby les45 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:53 pm

While it is too hot to paint, I have still managed to get some quality time on other work. The past week has been spent in framing the interior for the bed and dinette. Everything in the area of the cables for the hoisting system will be removable for easy access if I ever have to work on that system in the future. I used a lot of Kreg Jig connections to accommodate future removals. The dinette seats will house the electrical and porta potty but they also will be fastened down in such a way that they can be easily removed. My plan was to use 1X2 for most of the framing while 2X2 would be needed in a few places. It turned out that none of my big box stores had 1X2 so I had to improvise. Lowes had some really nice 1X4 so I ripped them down the middle and ended up with a slightly bigger 1X2. It turned out that it was cheaper to buy the wood this way. The pics below pretty much tell the story. Work included additional framing in the rear wall to accommodate the bead board paneling that will be installed in all exposed areas around the lower cabin. I will have a lot of storage under the bed and I plan to leave the front center section open for accessing storage containers. This will eliminate having to move the mattress for access although some of the bed deck panels will be hinged. I found an old cabinet that I had built a few years back for another project that I will be able to use for my galley cabinet. I just have to make a larger and taller counter top that will be portable and fasten to the top of this cabinet. The cabinet is a perfect height to leave in place with the top lowered. Before decking the bed and paneling the walls and dinette seats, my next order of business will be my AC and DC electrical systems including trailer running lights.

The old dinette table will be shortened and will be removed when the top is down. The dinette seats will house the electrical on the left and a porta potty on the right.
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Most of the bed frame is doubled 1X2 to accommodate fastening the bed deck later. The deck sections near the hoist cables will be smaller and removable.
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This old cabinet that I built years ago will be perfect to adapt for the galley cabinet. It is the perfect height to leave in place with the top down. I just have to build some sort of portable counter top section that will be slightly higher and larger to hold cooking appliances.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (7-15-16) vinyl flooring don

Postby les45 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:39 pm

Oops! Almost forgot that the vinyl flooring needs to go in before I start doing the electrical and remaining interior work. Ran down to the local big box today and picked up a couple of boxes of peel and stick (after the wife had picked out the style and color). I covered the entire forward area of the cabin but only went back under the bed as far as I plan to store stuff. All done and now I really am ready to start my electrical.

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Re: A different kind of pop-up (7-29-16)vinyl flooring done

Postby rebapuck » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:12 am

Hinge the countertop on the front edge and just flip it down when traveling.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (7-29-16)vinyl flooring done

Postby les45 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:35 am

rebapuck wrote:Hinge the countertop on the front edge and just flip it down when traveling.


I'm considering some kind of folding arrangement but the counter top will be wider and deeper than the top of the cabinet. I'm also looking at raising it about six inches. It may end up being something portable that simply stores on the floor while traveling and sits on top with some sort of locking device when in use. I'm still designing that one in my head.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (8-6-16)electrical roughed in

Postby les45 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:24 pm

The last week was spent roughing in my AC and DC cabin systems. My electrical is very basic. Since we only camp at campgrounds with power, I decided to go without a battery or converter. I have a small breaker box primarily for splitting and controlling the few circuits that I will have. The AC system will be primarily three or four surface mounted Wiremold receptacles at each end of the cabin and in the middle near the galley cabinet. The DC system is an old computer power supply that will provide up to 14 amps of 12 volt DC to the overhead lights and Fantastic Fan. As you can see in the pics, the DC power supply simply plugs in to a receptacle inside the electrical cabinet which is located under one of the dinette seats. If some of the parts look like overkill it is because I used stuff that I had on hand and bought very little additional stuff. I've spent less than $20 on the entire system. Next week will be the installation of the trailer running lights which will be totally inside the cabin with a dedicated ground wire. The original wiring used the trailer frame for ground and it still worked after 27 years but I just prefer a dedicated ground wire system. All of my framing is complete inside the cabin for the bed, dinette, and galley so I can move on to paneling all the interior as soon as I finish the running lights. I plan to use bead board for all interior paneling.

Everything in the cabin is modular so it can be removed for working on the hoist system. The dinette seat can be removed leaving the electrical board attached to the floor beneath. Normal access to the electrical system will be by a hinged seat bottom.
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The guts of the electrical system all fit on one board that will be fastened to the floor under the dinette seat. The small breaker box has two 15 amp split breakers which allow up to 4 circuits. I am currently using only three. The circuit tester came in quite handy since it turned out that I reversed the wiring at the back side of the inlet and didn't realize it until I plugged the tester in.
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I got creative with my electrical inlet. I was able to use the original water inlet by cutting the center hole bigger for the 15 amp Marinco electrical inlet. I think it makes a nice, neat installation.
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This is the back side of the inlet inside the cabin wall.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (8-25-16)trlr lights done

Postby les45 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 2:09 pm

Finished nearly all the electrical today with the final installation of all the trailer lighting. It wasn't all that complicated but I had 11 clearance lights plus the two tail lights to wire up. I found a really nice four pin wiring harness on sale at Harbor Freight for $8.00. It had 25 feet of #12 wire with an extra wire (total of five) for left/right tail lights plus a four foot pigtail. I used terminal blocks front and rear to organize everything and ran the rear wires in PVC conduit along the left wall. Later, when I install the bead board paneling, it will all be screwed in place so it is removable for easy access to all the hidden wiring. With all the AC work previously done, the only electrical remaining will be four AC receptacles inside the cabin and running a portable wire that will provide DC power to the overhead lights and the Fantastic Fan. The portable wire will have to move or be plugged in as the roof is raised and lowered. I still haven't figured that one out yet. Next order of business will be decking the bed and installing the bead board paneling around the cabin and on the dinette seats.

All the lights worked as they should when tested.
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Lots of lights on these wider tailers; seven running lights and the two tail lights across the back plus four running lights up front.
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Front terminal board splits the wiring harness and provides easy connection for front running lights. Main harness from tongue comes up through the floor on the right and splits through the terminal board with the wires going to the rear through the PVC conduit on the left wall.
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Rear terminal board then distributes the wiring to all the rear lighting. The wall paneling to be installed next will be removable for easy access to all the hidden wiring.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (8-25-16)trlr lights done

Postby Alan_H » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:50 pm

Your wiring looks very well organized and I like the reasoning of 2 terminal blocks. (I might steal that idea :thumbsup: )

The only thing I see that you might reconsider is the scotch-lock connectors. I try to avoid using those, unless it is to add something like an additional side-marker light to an existing harness. I have seen too many instances of them relaxing and failing. I always try to either solder my connections, or use butt connectors when soldering is not practical.

I noted that you said you will be making the panels covering your wiring removable for maintenance, but I doubt you really want to have to do it on a regular basis.

Just my .02 cents.
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Re: A different kind of pop-up (8-25-16)trlr lights done

Postby les45 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:34 pm

Alan_H wrote:The only thing I see that you might reconsider is the scotch-lock connectors. I try to avoid using those, unless it is to add something like an additional side-marker light to an existing harness. I have seen too many instances of them relaxing and failing. I always try to either solder my connections, or use butt connectors when soldering is not practical.


The scotch-lock connectors in the pics were some of the few that I left from the original wiring in order to have a longer length of wire leads to work with in a couple of tight locations, primarily on the side marker lights front and rear. They appeared to be the original wiring which would be 27 years old. They still worked when I bought the trailer so I figured they would be OK. I too am not a fan of this type of connector. All my new connectors were crimped and taped and all the connections to the light fixtures were made with spade connectors for easy removal in the future.
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