Yet to be named build log

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Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:14 pm

I've been designing a modified and stretched cub. It is 5x10 on a welded Northern Tool trailer. I'm replacing the original suspension with Timbren independent, and adding 15" wheels and tires. Here are some early sketches. I'm doing some last minute tweaking to the plans. I have begun ordering parts for my build. The suspension is on the way. In the next week or two I'll pick up the trailer.
The floor and walls are skeletonized, insulated 3/4" with 1/4" outside walls and 1/8" inside walls, headliner and roof. The whole thing will be skinned in .040" Aluminum. I'm also stretching the tongue for more clearance and better backing.
Several quick questions for the forum:
What is the min height needed for my roof cross-members? I'm tall, so I'd like to gain as much headroom as possible without going over 48" OAH. I have a 1.5" drawn now but if 1" or 3/4" would work...
Would I need more than 6 bolt anchors for the floor to frame?
Thanks.

David
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tear plan 1.jpg
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DavesCub1.png
DavesCub1.png (167.16 KiB) Viewed 4978 times
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:19 pm

I forgot to mention, I plan on sealing all the wood with CPES, and epoxy over everything for complete waterproofing under the skin.

David
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby lfhoward » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:36 am

Hi David,

That's a nice looking trailer you have planned there! Looks like you've done your homework and have considered lots of factors in drawing it up.

A couple of things come to mind. First, be sure to check on the correct position for the trailer's axle. In your sketch, it is pretty far back on the teardrop, which would make sense if balanced with a very heavy rear galley, but with your tongue box and the majority of trailer weight in front of the axle, it may put too much tongue weight on your tow vehicle. I'm sure there are guidelines for positioning it (my TD is not on a red trailer so I'm not sure where to send you for that), but you could also check out some TD's with similar proportions, like the Atma Travelear or the Silver Beatle.

Second, to answer your questions, I think more bolts to hold the body to the frame would be better than less. If it were mine I'd go with at least 8, if not 10 or 12. Even if that many may not be absolutely needed for the physics of the thing, they would give me peace of mind and they are not hard to put in at is stage. In terms of roof spars, in my opinion you'll need a depth of 1.5 to handle the torque that curved 0.04 aluminum will put on the frame, and that depth is needed if you plan to install a Fantastic Vent Fan in the ceiling. 1.5 inch spars (1x2's oriented vertically) will provide strength to the TD body and keep it from flexing. If you can find a source of 5 foot wide 0.04 aluminum sheeting, you could design your TD to be 5' tall and gain an extra foot of headroom if you are concerned about inside space.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:17 am

lfhoward,
Thanks for the reply. I can easily go with 10 bolts as it is planned. I was pretty sure the response would be for 1.5" roof spars. That is what I currently have planned. As to the axle placement, The original plan was checked in solidworks, and that position gives about 15% on the tongue. Also, with the Timbren axles, they would be easy to move.

David
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:32 am

I tell ya, the more I get into designing this, the more questions I have. What would be the max recommended distance between roof spars? I'm currently planning for 12" centers.

David
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby lfhoward » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:43 am

MIB66 wrote:I tell ya, the more I get into designing this, the more questions I have. What would be the max recommended distance between roof spars? I'm currently planning for 12" centers.

David

I know, the closer you get, the more things you realize you need to think about! That's part of the fun, but I am definitely still on a learning curve myself.

I don't know if there is a maximum recommended roof spar distance, but I imagine you would need them closer together in the curved sections so that the plywood and sheet metal you bend over the curve is supported and doesn't have a chance to flatten out there. 1 foot sounds reasonable for these areas. I am using 15 inches between spars on my flat roof, which has worked fine. The fantastic vent fan needs either 14 or 14.5 inches of space (if I remember correctly) between beams supporting it.
My off-road camper build on an M116A3 military chassis:
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62581
Tow vehicle: 2008 Jeep Liberty with a 4 inch lift.
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby blentz » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:24 pm

If you are going to weld the trailer, change the tongue and the supension why not build it from scratch?
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby azgreg » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:25 pm

blentz wrote:If you are going to weld the trailer, change the tongue and the supension why not build it from scratch?

My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:39 pm

You don't want to try to deal with IDOT, the one eyed idiot. In a state that is bankrupt it will take me multiple attempts and many fees to get the home built trailer licensed.
Last edited by MIB66 on Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby KCStudly » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:30 am

My cabin is 64 inches wide outside to outside with walls about 1-3/4 inches thick.

I ended up spacing my 1x2 cedar roof spars at about 8 inches on center, except for the 2x2's at the roof vent which were at about 14-1/2 inches (14 inch nominal plus allowance for the flange to sit more squarely on the frame and the screws to be more centered in the wood, plus clearance for the power wires to tuck in).

After deciding that I needed spars at all (foamie hybrid construction) I tested wider spar spacing at first but the 5mm ceiling skin still wanted to sag a little, so I added a few more. Despite being a foamie hybrid, my build has a lot of similarities to traditional construction, so I think this is still a valid data point of comparison. Heavier/stronger wood species might do slightly better, as would using thinner/lighter ply (I'm using marine grade Okoume, so slightly heavier than same thickness luan or thinner birch.
KC
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:07 pm

Turns out you were right about my axle location. The earlier image was from before I did the CG calc. Here is the updated location showing the redrawn sidewall frames.
David
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby aggie79 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:56 pm

MIB66 wrote:You don't want to try to deal with IDOT, the one eyed idiot. In a state that is bankrupt it will take me multiple attempts and many fees to get the home built trailer licensed.


Not entirely legal and not necessarily recommending it, but one approach is to buy the cheapest on-sale HF or NT trailer, use it for the riding lawnmower, but apply the registration to a new custom trailer. Some of the HF trailers come with a sticker for the VIN that helps in this switcheroo. :peace:
Tom (& Linda)
For more on our Silver Beatle teardrop:
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:30 pm

Tom, I'd rather not try my luck. Every time I ever tried to get away with something sneaky, I always got caught. And Illinois has a way of making everything worse, in regards to governance and laws.

Just Got done ordering my doors and fan from Vintage Technologies. Yikes, I've already blown close to $2000 and I don't even have the trailer yet. :shock:

David
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby MIB66 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:38 am

Quick question for everyone. I'm reading many people have problems with 1/8" bendy ply sagging. I have some tight curves on this build. Would I be better off running cross members more frequently, like every 6", or just change over to 3/8 Luan?
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Re: Yet to be named build log

Postby KCStudly » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:54 am

You will have a harder time bending thicker ply. What I did on my front radius was to make small "rib-lets" instead of spars.

Image

It worked pretty well with the 5mm ply I used. I did have some issues with the grain popping over the tight-ish 13-1/2 radius, with one small area that puckered, but I was able to stabilize that with a layer of 6oz FG and epoxy.
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