turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

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turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby noknowledge » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:06 pm

Hello all. Been lurking for awhile, reading obsessively. I am planning to build a hybrid foamie with/for my son. He has been battling health issues for four years now, but when he has been healthy enough we have taken him camping, and he loves it. Just everything we all love about it, he gets it at a deep level. So as a way to pass time with week long chemo visits, we have been planning a camper. This is important to know so you can understand some of the design decisions we make and why i will try my best to fulfill the wishes of a seven year old boy’s design ideas - which are not always the most practical but they are fun.

Like a deck. He has to have a deck. I am thinking of a back door that lowers like a drawbridge and becomes a deck - somehow, i will do it.
A window to see stars - sure, i like that idea.
A cage for the dogs on the tongue with a dog door in the wall - we argue about this one daily.

We will build a 5X8 camper on a northern tools trailers 5X8 trailer (maybe aluminum). I asked two local trailer makers, one who has built trailers for tear drop builders before, but they don't seem interested in building one right now (can understand a one off custom is not a priority). But a NT trailer will be a lot cheaper, lighter, and i can customize it myself. Thinking of moving the axle back (not sure how far) and getting a torsion axle with 15 inch tires and brakes.

Before we invest in a trailer, i want to build the camper and later attach it to the trailer. The floor we are planning will be 1/8 marine grade ply on the bottom, with 1X2 framing inside the floor, with 1.5” thick foam board, and 1/8 ply as the top layer of the floor sandwich. Some sort of coating will be on the bottom of the floor.

This is where it gets weird. I built a house using standard lumber, layered together to form thicker posts and beams, using some timber framing design ideas to form giant arches. On the outside of these bents was put a wooden tongue and groove skin (which became the interior exposed walls) and on the outside of that insulation foam boards, with an outer skin of wood. (so a foam sandwich basically attached to the outside of 15 large bents). So kinda built a hybrid foamie house.

Being the only construction technique i know, I feel most comfortable copying it for a camper. I will build four arches that span from the left side of the floor to the right side. The bents will be made out of three layers of 1X2 cedar with four arches in each bent cut out of 1X8 boards. Each bent will have 5 sides above the floor - the first bent might be just three sides. (hope the picture helps visualize this) The posts will have a tongue (the middle 1X2 that extends into the floor) that can be attached to the inside framing of the floor - the floor will have joists that span the floor that the tongues will fit into. So each bent is really a full hexagon, without interruptions or gaps.

The two end bents will be shorter than the two middle bents, giving it an angular pill box, turtle shell type shape. The max inside height might be around 50 inches, maybe 48 inches. 1/8 ply will go on the outside of the bents to form the interior wall. Then will go a layer of 1.5” foam glued onto the ply. Then the outside covering will be canvas and glue. There will be lots of seams - (13 panels max just for the roof - yikes.) a real downside, but I want to know from experience if it will work or not (instead of just telling myself now it will never work). The ply on the bents will have (maybe) fiberglass tape on the seams with poly coating. (i want to try some fiberglass because never used it before). I am hoping to make the interior plywood shell water tight by itself as a backup in case the canvas and glue leak anywhere.

I will extend the rear roof panels six inches to form a Kammback that looks at least like it might serve some drag reducing function and be some rain covering for the back door.

There will not be a galley. Not having a galley means i can have a rear deck open to the bed. Not having a galley means i am losing out on some structural strength and to gain some strength is one reason i went with the four bents with arches idea. There will be a rear wall, with shelving units on either side. In between the shelves will be a drawbridge like door that opens up to become a deck. A camping stove and other kitchen stuff can be stored in the shelves. Cooking will be on a camping table set up outside of the camper. A queen size mattress will be used.

Hope to get to work on this soon. Looking for 5X8 or 5X10 sources of plywood so i can start the floor. Also i hope to do a build journal as much as i can. That is the hope anyway.

the sketch below is a bit hard to see, most of the panels are not filled in, so imagine it filled in solid. The tongue box will be a box, but this is the cage design my son likes. on the rear wall, a drawer is pictured as open - they might open towards the middle of the camper. Also pictured is a fold down desk/bunk(?) that might go on top of the shelves.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby Pmullen503 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:19 pm

How big will that deck be? Will it be large enough to be worth the effort? Maybe you could design a deck that stores under the floor. That at least would be large enough for two to sit on.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby noknowledge » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:49 pm

under the floor... yes. i have given it about five seconds thought but yes, i like that idea. the deck as door thing makes a very small deck... ummm, fun design challenge. adds a little more protection underneath but also less clearance. ummm, i suppose i can go all the way to within a few inches of the axle... and have it the width of the trailer.. if i can figure out how to slide it out easy, with some feet that fold down. I am also liking the idea of doing a back door as a back door and not worry about also making it into a deck.
This would allow a chair or two, two people on it, as we are hanging out at camp. A weight penalty and a deck is nothing i would think of putting in, but under the floor might really work for us.
Thanks.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby Pmullen503 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:34 am

How about some metal C channel welded or bolted to the frame. We did that years ago for a ramp for a motorcycle trailer. The ramp (deck in your case) was 5/4 cedar deck boards with 2x2 stringers to screw the deck boards to.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby KCStudly » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:36 pm

Setting aside the fact that I don't see a deck as being a practical camping accessory, I suggest that you include a ramp gate in your trailer purchase and convert that into the "deck". Keep the entry door separate so that you can focus on making it water tight.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby razorback » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:37 pm

you could weld two receivers on the back and have two 6 or seven foot beams to stick into the receivers with small jacks under the floor at the far end of the deck.
the floor could be hinged and stowed on the roof on a rack.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby Staryder61 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:58 pm

Years ago I used a utility trailer for a work trailer. I made a raised floor in the trailer of 6" and under the floor I created a roll out. When the trailer was full of cabinets to be installed I needed a work platform. Constructed a pull out work platform. That was 5' wide and 10' long. I made the roll out, using angle iron, garage door roller rails and garage door rollers. With 3/4" ply for the top.. it was strong enough to set my 10" Bosch table saw on and a Dewalt 12" miter saw with stand. With a couple jack stands under it.. it was very stable...
This could also be done under a trailer. Plywood would have to be sealed really well..
Something similar to the following:
https://www.carid.com/cargoglide/bed-slide.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7JnUh_Wv2AIVD7XACh1vSw23EAQYASABEgJ6WfD_BwE
There's a couple videos on the right side of the page. That might give you some idea of how I designed mine.. same principle..
Stay safe, David



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6' X 12' CTC = Texas Sized Tackle Box
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=74704
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby noknowledge » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:25 pm

Thanks for all of your advice. All good ideas. Certainly I would never go through trouble to build a deck for any practical purpose other than to fill my son's wish. I like the idea of using the back gate of a trailer. Thought of that earlier and might just do that if i run across the right trailer for sale.

Welding a c channel might be where we go with this. Seems to be a pretty simple solution, without too many moving parts.

I also like the idea of two receivers welded to the back to slide the deck out onto and then fitting into, rather than just have the end of the deck sitting in the channel. jacks would be a simple solution for keeping the far end up. I hate all of the weight i will be adding to this.. but also with the c channel, i can choose to leave the deck and jacks at home and only have to haul around empty channel on the bottom of the trailer.

The cargo glide might be the way to think of the deck - have some way for it to be more of a glide with wheels rather than a dragging through channel. Umm, could even be some small wheels recessed into a torsion box deck. would glide out, or roll out but not make the deck too thick..

thanks for the ideas. every day in the planning process seems to have a different theme. today i went back to thinking through skinning ideas, still thinking of canvas and glue but thinking covering all of the roof panels with their various angles will be a pain.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby Pmullen503 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:35 am

Covering the flat areas will be easy. The joints can be then covered with 6 or 8" wide strips at the corners like shingling a hip roof on a house.

The real problem I see with a hip roof is door height. How tall are the vertical sides? My door is 28" x 42" which is fine but I wouldn't want it smaller. You could make the back flat and put the door there.
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Re: turtle foamie hybrid with a deck

Postby noknowledge » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Never lived in a house with a hip roof so was not thinking about them. thanks. did some research into hip roofs and that is kinda what i got going. i put a ridge cap on our metal roof, so i could think of the seam coverings in similar terms - a bunch of ridge caps...

the side door heights is an issue. there will be a back door, but i do also want two side doors, i go from envisioning pretty normal side doors purchased or making some custom pretty wide doors. The side wall height as it is now will be 3' tall. vintage technologies has a 26 by 36 door, so even for this door i will need to tweak my side wall just a little bit. So if a 36 inch high door is tall enough, i will be able to fit that in with roughly the design i have now. But i do think i would like a taller door, i would appreciate (in my imagination) not hunching to get in and out too much. Just not sure if 36 inches high would feel just fine for me or not, when i am up 2 or so feet off the ground, on a bed etc...

The door height, and where the door will be located because of where the wheel turns out to be, is something i will keep coming around to examining i am sure.
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