Tom & Shelly's build

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby tony.latham » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:39 pm

Thing I'm worried about is that our sides will have a skirt covering the trailer frame ...


I think you're right. But I'd plan on building it with the fenders off, if possible and the wheels removed with the hubs sitting on blocks. It was a real pain to put the aluminum on and the bottom trim on my first build.

Here's another action shot:

Image

One of the keys –and I'm talking from experience– is to make sure the trailer is hitched to the truck before this maneuver is attempted.

:frightened:

Tony
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:17 am

tony.latham wrote:One of the keys –and I'm talking from experience– is to make sure the trailer is hitched to the truck before this maneuver is attempted.

:frightened:

Tony


Yikes! I see the problem!

Guess I'm back to thinking we should assemble on the trailer (when we are ready in a few weeks). I already have the fenders off, and our tires are about 4 inches from the frame, so it may make sense to leave them alone. I think we can work around them, including spraying paint, or rolling Monstaliner, but we could remove them if needed without too much trouble.

Part that concerns me is the spare tire holder which is 2 inches from the frame. Can't see in the picture, but it has an L shape with the base welded to the bottom of the frame.

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I didn't really give this sufficient thought when we had the trailer built! Think we can wiggle the side in around it, if I make the notch for the floor wide enough to slide it in sideways a bit. I was thinking about leaving the bottom piece of the wall (a poplar stick 3" x 10') behind the outer skin off and gluing it on later, but we would need to figure out how to clamp it.

Then, I'm thinking about how to waterproof the seam between that and the floor. Perhaps The Mix applied with pipe cleaners to cover any area I miss between epoxy and PL Premium. The trouble is we can't see in there.

Then there is the problem of spraying paint, or rolling Monstaliner behind that spare tire holder.

Oh well, there are solutions! Some may turn out to be a pain, but nothing we can't overcome!

Thanks Tony!

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby tony.latham » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:34 am

Then there is the problem of spraying paint, or rolling Monstaliner behind that spare tire holder.


You could dump the skirting plan and Monstaliner your frame the same color.

Just a thought... ;)

T
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby KTM_Guy » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:13 pm

I didn’t do a skirt on mine. My thought is if water gets between the bottom of the floor and the frame, I want it to fine an easy way to get out. The skirt seems to me to restrict the movement of that water. Also may restrict air flow that would aid evaporation.

Is the skirt 2”? Maybe a 2x4 with a 1x4 next to the skirt on both sides.

You can take the tires off the trailer to get the frame closer to the ground. Have the frame on some cribbing.

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:59 pm

KTM_Guy wrote:I didn’t do a skirt on mine. My thought is if water gets between the bottom of the floor and the frame, I want it to fine an easy way to get out. The skirt seems to me to restrict the movement of that water. Also may restrict air flow that would aid evaporation.

Is the skirt 2”? Maybe a 2x4 with a 1x4 next to the skirt on both sides.

You can take the tires off the trailer to get the frame closer to the ground. Have the frame on some cribbing.

Todd


As we think about it, Shelly and I are reaching the same conclusion: the skirt is liable to cause problems with water and rot. Much better to leave it off. Especially since our trailer is black, and we are thinking of a light top color with black trim anyway: It'll look just as good.

I think when we started this, I naively thought the extra bonding surface between the wall and floor would help structurally, but I don't see that now.

Think we'll still build on the trailer. Without the skirt, we can lay the wall on the floor and the spare tire carrier won't be as much in the way as when we planned to slide the wall in. The trailer frame is an inch less wide than the floor on each side, so I'll be able to get under and put screws up into the wall. We'll probably put some in at an angle from the outer wall into the floor too. (Have to learn how to use my Harbor Fright version of a Kreg Jig.) By building on the trailer, we won't have to try and line the bolt holes up between the floor and trailer again.

Funny thing, I designed the interior height based on our thinking that we would have a skirt cover the 3" frame, and that we would use 4 x 8 ply for the outer skin. Now, we are using 5 x 5 BB, and anyway we have no skirt, so we could have made it a few inches taller. Shelly has an inch and a half on me, and I measured her sitting on the 8 inch futon mattress we plan to use. Just fits as it is. She says she would have liked an extra inch or so, but I don't want to buy more plywood and start over! Told her if she doesn't like it, we can buy a firm 6 inch mattress and she can get back the two inches that way. I suspect once we start to use it, we won't even think about that. I'm beginning to see why folks build more than one of these things! :)

Yes, we may take the tires off if it'll make it easier to reach the roof during construction. Alternatively, I might build some scaffolding 18 inches or so high, similar to a bench I've used for that purpose before.

Thanks again Todd and Tony for the good advice!

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:01 pm

tony.latham wrote:
Then there is the problem of spraying paint, or rolling Monstaliner behind that spare tire holder.


You could dump the skirting plan and Monstaliner your frame the same color.

Just a thought... ;)

T


Yep. New plan, better than the original! :)

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby FM82 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:48 pm

KTM_Guy wrote:I didn’t do a skirt on mine. My thought is if water gets between the bottom of the floor and the frame, I want it to fine an easy way to get out. The skirt seems to me to restrict the movement of that water. Also may restrict air flow that would aid evaporation.

Todd


Just an idea, but this is what I was planning on doing with mine. Maybe my idea will help, or someone's counter idea may help me not make a mistake. Anyway, with mine, my plan was to run the skin down to the bottom of the trailer frame with putty tape in-between. On the lower, inside of the frame, run a full bead of sealant in the corner where the floor meets the trailer frame.



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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:29 pm

FM82 wrote:
KTM_Guy wrote:I didn’t do a skirt on mine. My thought is if water gets between the bottom of the floor and the frame, I want it to fine an easy way to get out. The skirt seems to me to restrict the movement of that water. Also may restrict air flow that would aid evaporation.

Todd


Just an idea, but this is what I was planning on doing with mine. Maybe my idea will help, or someone's counter idea may help me not make a mistake. Anyway, with mine, my plan was to run the skin down to the bottom of the trailer frame with putty tape in-between. On the lower, inside of the frame, run a full bead of sealant in the corner where the floor meets the trailer frame.



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Hi FM,

I couldn't do that, since my frame isn't quite as wide as our floor. I'm okay letting the frame show anyway. Can't comment on your idea--I haven't used putty tape, so just don't know. Good luck with your build!

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby FM82 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:13 am

Ah! I see what you mean. Making that work would most likely be more trouble than it's worth. Oh well. It will look just fine with or without.

Thanks, Tom! And good luck to you with your build. I'll be following along.

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:15 pm

This weekend we glued the inner cabin skins to the wall skeletons and routed them to size. Just finished gluing the foam on one side while the 2nd coat of varnish dried on the other side. About to lay down a third coat (out of 5, probably).

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Next steps include gluing on the outer skins, adding the foam to the galley sections, and then fiberglassing the outsides. After that, we should be ready to assemble.

Happy holidays everyone! Thank you for reading our thread, and thank you for the comments and advice!

Tom and Shelly
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:51 pm

We added the outer skin to one side. The other is about to get the same the same treatment. We will leave off the inside skin for the galley until after the walls are erected. (The next layer is actually a spacer for the hatch sealing system and won't be varnished anyway.)

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We were planning to use pocket screws from the inside into the floor to help hold the sides on, along with PL Premium and screws up from the floor, coated with PL Premium, into the edge of the plywood wall skeleton. However I bought this Harbor Fright pocket hole jig

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and, testing on some scrap 1/8" baltic birch, laminated to 3/4" plywood, just as the walls are, found the tear-out on the upcut side of the drill bit is horrific!

156995

The grain runs horizontally, just as it does on the inner skins of the walls.

Tried using masking tape, and ran the drill at it's highest speed, but it's still a problem. Anyone have any ideas? Is it the cheap jig bit? Should I try a real Kreg jig?

Guess the alternatives are to forego the angle screws entirely, go from the outside and patch the skin with epoxy (the outside will be fiberglassed), try and hide the tear out somehow, or just live with it (the holes will be under the mattress). As always, thanks for any advice you can give!

Tony, I looked back at a thread on attaching the walls to the floors, and it looks like you went in horizontally from the outside skin as well as Kreg jigging, and going up from the bottom. Is that what you recommend? Thanks!

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby redbicycle » Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:19 am

If the outside is going to be epoxy anyways I would drill from the outside, full the holes with wood filler and epoxy over then. That's basically what I did.


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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby noseoil » Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:02 am

You could try a piece of 1/8" BB as a "washer" between the finished panel & the jig. It might work to keep the veneer from tearing, then again, it might not...
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby tony.latham » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:44 am

...found the tear-out on the upcut side of the drill bit is horrific!


Mine did the same thing. I've got a couple of Kreg pocket hole jigs and there's no tear out. That HF tool is superbly built (am I really saying this?) but poorly designed.

At least you've got an extra pocket hole bit and driver now.

We will leave off the inside skin for the galley until after the walls are erected.


What's your thinking here? I've always done as much as possible to the walls on the bench before mounting to the floor.

:thinking:

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:16 pm

redbicycle wrote:If the outside is going to be epoxy anyways I would drill from the outside, full the holes with wood filler and epoxy over then. That's basically what I did.


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That's another option I considered. If the jig did a clean job on the inside, it looked like it might be easier and still look good, especially if I filled with a dowel and trimmed with a Japanese saw. The messy tear out has me reconsidering and I may go from the outside as you did. Thank you!

Tom
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