Tom & Shelly's build

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:21 pm

aggie79 wrote:I am not familiar with HF pocket hole jig. On the Kreg pocket hole jigs, there is a stop collar on the drill bit that can be adjusted for depth to join different depths of materials. That may help with using the 1/8" BB ply to prevent tear out. Just set the stop collar for 7/8" (3/4" plus 1/8") material.


Yes, the HF bit works the same way. I agree, I could adjust the stop collar. There is an issue with the L bracket HF supplies; not worth going into details, but the bit would hit it, but one can simply take the jig off of the bracket.

if the Kreg jig weren't as inexpensive, I think I would use the HF bit, but take a piece of hard wood (or pinion pine, which grows so slowly it has some desirable properties of both hard and soft commercial woods) and make my own jig.

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby tony.latham » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:43 pm

It looks like you made the inset 1/4" tall


The rule of thumb is to compress the seal 50%. If I were to cut it tonight, It would protrude 5/16" to take into consideration the kerf from cutting the hatch side off the wall. Assuming a 1/2" D-seal.

T
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby KTM_Guy » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:28 am

The Kreg K4 jig is $100 at Home Depot or Lowes. I think it would be very hard to make a jig that would last for more than a few holes. Unles you had some hardened steel sleeves to put in it.

For my hatch I went the way Tony did his sisters camper. Am I missing a down side to doing it that way?

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby tony.latham » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:48 am

Am I missing a downside to doing it that way?


Nope. They both cut the weight from Fredrick's original hatch. :thumbsup:

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Graniterich » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:07 pm

tony.latham wrote:
It looks like you made the inset 1/4" tall


The rule of thumb is to compress the seal 50%. If I were to cut it tonight, It would protrude 5/16" to take into consideration the kerf from cutting the hatch side off the wall. Assuming a 1/2" D-seal.

T
I have seen 30% compression stated, that's what I use

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:18 pm

tony.latham wrote:I see McMaster Carr has some that is 1/2" x 1/2" that should be perfect.

T


I just ordered some seals from them: https://www.mcmaster.com/bulb-seals

Ordered both style D and E and will see which seems better. Thanks for the lead Tony.

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:49 pm

Graniterich wrote:
tony.latham wrote:
It looks like you made the inset 1/4" tall


The rule of thumb is to compress the seal 50%. If I were to cut it tonight, It would protrude 5/16" to take into consideration the kerf from cutting the hatch side off the wall. Assuming a 1/2" D-seal.

T
I have seen 30% compression stated, that's what I use

Sent from my A1-840FHD using Tapatalk


I can see the point of leaving as high of a lip as possible (above the kerf from the hatch outer sides cut from the walls) to mitigate water even getting to the seal, but, if I understand this correctly, the seal compression is a function of the distance between the inner galley and hatch ply spacer. The engineering trade against the taller lip would be that a smaller lip makes it sturdier against damage while the hatch is open. Do I understand that correctly? :thinking:

Think I'll see what I get from McMaster-Carr (due here on Friday--hope that doesn't entail too high of a shipping charge!), then decide how much space to leave between the lip from the inner galley and the hatch ply spacer. If 50%, that would be 1/4".

To tell the truth, I was thinking of mitigating my imperfect jig saw skills by designing a 1/8" gap between the galley wall and hatch outer side, rather than the ~1/16" due to saw kerf. I can cut and sand the template, draw two lines 1/8" apart on the wall, and cut between them. Then straighten the cuts with the template(s) and router. The downside is that 1/8" gap leaves the effective height of the lip that much smaller. If the lip is only 1/8" above the hatch outer seal (when closed, of course) does that sound like it might be an issue?

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:56 pm

KTM_Guy wrote:The Kreg K4 jig is $100 at Home Depot or Lowes. I think it would be very hard to make a jig that would last for more than a few holes. Unles you had some hardened steel sleeves to put in it.

Todd


Well, I'd only need the homemade jig to last about 30 holes (assuming 15 per side). I made similar jigs before, but probably never used them quite that much. Anyway, I'll wait on the Kreg jig and try it.

We put our first coat of epoxy on the outer walls this afternoon. We're in the middle of a blizzard with very cold temperatures, so how fast we lay out the fiberglass and lay on more coats of epoxy depends a lot on how fast it cures in our ~65 degree garage and a little on how much we need to dig out our driveway.

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am

In the middle of fiberglassing our sides. Just noticed we are running low on epoxy, so ordered more. Hope we have enough to finish this!

157028 157027

We put down a coat of epoxy on both sides Tuesday evening. To my surprise, it seemed fully cured Wednesday morning, so that afternoon I wet sanded it. We laid and coated the fiberglass Thursday morning, went out running errands and grocery shopping (first time in several days that the local roads were passable after two storms), and found it cured enough to put on a filler coat four hours later. Boy were we tired that evening! (Grocery shopping does that to me. :lol: )

Just looked at it this morning, and we will need to do at least another filler coat. Also noticed that the fiberglass lifted a bit above the wood along one lower edge, although it's well embedded in the epoxy. Think that was due to the weight of the fabric overhanging. Oh well, that's our inexperience showing. We'll try and put more epoxy over it to hide the unevenness. It will be behind a tire, or nearly so, and if we aren't satisfied with the appearance, we may add a thin strip of diamond plate along the bottom to hide it.

Can't wait to get the last coat on, wet sand it smooth, and cut the doors and hatch sides. We both go back to work Monday, and it may be too ambitious to have all that done by then. Anyway, we won't rush it--rather be satisfied with the appearance before moving on!

We're planning on using 1/8" Baltic birch for our ceiling and roof (maybe two layers for the roof), but for those who want another option, Shelly found this:

157013

So perhaps the big box stores to have a use!

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby tony.latham » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:58 am

Looking great as usual. :thumbsup: Your build is a good watch.

...planning on using 1/8" Baltic birch for our ceiling and roof (maybe two layers for the roof)...


1/8" BB is stout if laid on top of hard foam. Stouter yet of course if you are going to fiberglass it. But of course, it wouldn't be a big project to lay another layer.. but that would also make you add another layer on your hatch (I think?) and weight isn't a friend there.

:thinking:

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:38 pm

I too am enjoying your build process. :thumbsup: That "on the next build" mentality sure comes early in the first build, doesn't it!

I don't think you need toed or horizontal screws in your wall to floor joint at all.

I screwed up through my floor using PLP construction adhesive in the joint. I have thick foam core walls and floor, so perhaps a bit more blocky to begin with... with respect to joint stability... and have no issues or concerns about the joint strength. Its a simple joint with wall sitting on top of floor. It was rock solid even before wrapping fiberglass and epoxy around the underside of the floor as my outer wall skin ala foamie style construction; that just made it stronger and more waterproof. Since my wall cores are 1-1/2 thick (blue foam with a 2x2 cedar toe board/sub-frame), I made the extra effort to stagger the line of screws down each side, providing a marginally stronger joint (i.e. the screw line does not run straight down the middle of the wall like a hinge point, but rather each screw is offset along the center line in a slight zig zag pattern. The only place I used toed in pocket screws between cabin and floor was along the lower rear edge of the galley wall; dark stain and the fact that these are deep under the counter with all of the stuff that will be stored there in the line of sight allowed me that little bit of "I don't have to hide these" attitude. Inside of the cabin I decided that, even though they would have been hidden by the mattress, I just didn't want pocket holes there.
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:02 am

Thanks Tony and KC! :)

We are enjoying the building, and certainly learning a lot along the way!

Thank you for the great advice and suggestions! (This time on roof thickness and screws between floor and walls.)

4th coat of epoxy is looking good. Think we will add just a little more on a few spots this morning while the 4th coat is green cured and then give it a few days and start sanding. (I do it by hand with wet sand paper and an old tee shirt rag to take away the dust/water.)

Just wish we didn't have to go back to work. The progress will slow again for awhile :cry: . Oh well, had that problem for 50 years, and the only cure seems like it will be full retirement!

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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby twisted lines » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:19 pm

Thanks for sharing! Glad to see your accomplishments over the holidays :thumbsup: I think i may go work on a table now.
Very nice job with the hot wire, Made it look easy, Its not.
I am watching too see if you go two layers on the bend; and thought's for attaching them :thinking:
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:31 pm

twisted lines wrote:Thanks for sharing! Glad to see your accomplishments over the holidays :thumbsup: I think i may go work on a table now.
Very nice job with the hot wire, Made it look easy, Its not.
I am watching too see if you go two layers on the bend; and thought's for attaching them :thinking:


Right now, my thinking is probably just use the single 1/8" for the roof, with fiberglass. Why make more work, if 1/8" is enough? Guess Steve Fredrick felt it was better with two layers though.

Long way off right now; I'll be happy to get to the point where we have to consider it! :)

The table is important. We now use it for everything we are doing on the teardrop, but right now Shelly is negotiating to let her use if for a few days to make a loom. Long after the teardrop is built, it will be our shop assembly table and the outfeed table for the Saw Stop table saw we are lusting after.

Tom
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Re: Tom & Shelly's build

Postby Tom&Shelly » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:40 pm

Yesterday, I took the galley wall template I'd made earlier, and duplicated it. Then took the first one, laid out a pair of lines where I plan to cut the walls for the galley hatch, leaving 1/8" space between the walls and the hatch sides, cut them apart with a jig saw, and sanded between the lines.

157055

I plan to cut the hatch sides from the walls with the jig saw, then use these to route the pieces neatly.

Then I took the other template and cut it to match the inner walls. I won't cut the trimmed off piece until I decide how much compression the hatch seal should have (next post). When I do, it will be the template for the hatch spacer.

157054

After some thought, and considering the 1/8" gap I'll have between the walls and the outer hatch sides, I decided on a 3/8" lip on the inner walls:

157056

Still planning to use 1/4" Baltic birch for the inner walls, and I hope that will be enough to prevent damage to the lip from any accidental bumps down the road. (Or rather, off the road while cooking and such.)

Had enough time in the late afternoon to cut some 1/8" Baltic birch for spacers using the wall side template. Ran out of time before cutting the inner hatch sides from the other template, but that is on the list for "soon." I can then varnish the sides and glue the spacers and them to the walls before attaching to the floor.

Tom
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