The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[Atomic77]

I thought that was a given.

[GPW]

Atomic , where’s your Foamie ???

[KCStudly]

Atomic , where’s your Foamie ???

You can read all about Michael's "foamie" exploits here: http://u1racing.com/

Pretty much top of the class. (Deep respect is warranted.)

Now, if we are trying to encourage him to step over to the foamie camper side of things and show us how it could really be done, I can get on that bandwagon!

[Atomic77]

Thanks KC... Much respect to you as well. I was going to say that my foamies are covered in fiberglass and carbon fiber and go 220 mph...

[GPW]

Well then , Experts are ALWAYS Welcome ... whatever floats your Boat !!!

[ghcoe]

No negativity meant. Just a bit of humor...or so I thought....

Titanic is a example of how things could go terribly wrong even if you have the best materials. The design was the flaw. The circumstances the catalyst for disaster.....

[KCStudly]

I kind of crossed over on the PMF vs. FG thread tonight, so may be repeating myself here.

Tonight we made a hardware store run for a few misc. items and I helped Karl pick out some 4x4's for a project he is working on. Once back at the shop I got to work clearing off the work bench and cleaning up a bit. Then I dismantled and reclaimed the plastic sheeting from my makeshift vacuum bag set-up. Used the 6mil plastic to line the bench top for the upcoming covering operations, since I was thinking that I had pretty much decided on going with epoxy and glass.

One "small" issue I would have to deal with is the fact that I coated the edges and under side of the floor with TB2 as a sealer. It has been scuffed with 100 grit, but from what I have been researching more tooth is desired when mechanically bonding with epoxy, and the cedar probably wants some special handling as well.

I even made up a nice mix ratio chart for the epoxy, brought some old pallet topper cardboard sheets to use as drop cloth, and some stretch wrap for masking and lay-ups.

Of the two canvas test panels that I primed last night, one of them curled the canvas away from the foam a bit along one of the unwrapped edges, but the other sample seemed to come out really nice. Just had to knock down all of the little canvas "hairs" poking up thru the surface of the primer using the small hand block. The primer seemed to make the canvas even more resistant to denting. I could still push my finger into it easier than the 2-ply glass (which is actually pretty stiff), but it seems to spring back more readily now without leaving a visible dent, even on the large radius edge. I brought the two samples with me to show around at work and see what the guys think.

Man, here I was thinking that I had committed to the epoxy and FG, but I'm waffling again.

Interesting, too, that the poll is tied at 50/50.

[GPW]

One minor consideration , We’ve been using Epoxy for many tears now for our Airplane modeling , and over the years of exposure , many of the older modelers have developed an allergic reaction to Epoxy ... I break out in little red spots on my hands if I get near it now ... Just suggesting .... WEAR GLOVES !!!
Good ventilation is very important too ... The fumes , although not as obnoxious smelling as Polyester resin fumes are still dangerous ... Open a window , turn on the exhaust fan ... If you can smell it , that’s not good ...

That is the reason we’ve gone to the more innocuous TB2 ... and the water clean up ...

[KCStudly]

I hear you GPW. That is probably the biggest factor that has kept me from just automatically jumping on the epoxy path. I have a good supply of the disposable nitrile gloves... use them all the time... and one of the items I got from the HW store yesterday was fresh vapor cartridges for my respirator. (If you don't keep your vapor respirator in a sealed plastic bag the charcoal filters will absorb anything and everything becoming less effective; I had been using mine primarily as a dust filter, so had not been diligent about putting back in the zip bag I keep.)

[GPW]

Yes, good point ... at my brothers auto body shop we used to buy mask filters like crazy ( pricy too) , at home we’ve learned to keep them all in Zip lock freezer bags ... which really keeps them serviceable for a much longer time than just hanging off a nail on the bench ... even those cheapo' dust masks , now get a bag ... nothing is cheap anymore ... and not hanging them on a nail , the elastic straps didn’t get all stretched out and useless after a while ...
KC , you should be fine with Epoxy if you take the precautions... The reason I’m so freaky about resins is I had an Artist friend a long time ago , built a replica Viking ship out of FG and resin ... in an enclosed Patio area ... He didn’t last 6 months after he finished as the chemical fumes had "crystallized his lungs". Better safe than not ...

[capnTelescope]

Maybe you (all of you) are thinking I'm being a nanny...

I was thinking that maybe the word you were looking for was "ninny," but either way you're just being you. This is far less agonizing to watch than your last dilemma. I have no opinion on which way to go, just that you should eventually "go."

Onward!

[KCStudly]

Will do Capn, but I have spent the last 2 nights helping Karl to design a portable hydraulic tubing bender that will fit over pipe rail fence posts. 10 ton with capacity to form 1/4 x 3 inch flat bar the hard way.

I'll be back on the build tomorrow.

[Sheddie]

I have just been having a catch up, reading the last 3 pages.
A few comments to throw into the pot.
I still can't understand why so many have said that f/g & resin is so hard to work with. I have never found it much of a problem. I have done all mine dry on dry.
If you want to clean brushes and roller sleeves, try laundry powder and warm water. Work a sprinkling of dry powder into them (be generous) then wash out with warm to hot water. I found cold water doesn't work.
A few years ago I made a cover for the back seat area on our Capri convertible, to reduce the back draft when driving with the roof down. It is made with a piece of ply across the area with foam glued on to get the shape. I covered that with 8 oz f/g cloth and resin, only one layer. I just went over to the shed and gave it the thumb test and a good tapping all around, and as I thought it is all still good and solid.
When we built our boat, which is glass over ply, we used a method on the bottom of the hull where we applied 8 oz cloth, wet it all down with resin thinned with acetone, to soak well into the ply. The acetone evaporates out fairly quickly, then we covered it with a heavy clear vinyl/plastic sheet and poured normal strength and solvent free resin under the plastic and squeegeed out the air bubbles. The plastic holds the resin up level with the weave. Next day peel the plastic off and you have a nice smooth finish. For us on the boat, we left it like that, no sanding, no filling, no painting, just a smooth clear varnished like finish. It is still looking good 30 years later. We did one side of the hull at a time and just flipped the vinyl over to do the other side. For painting over it there is a lot less sanding and you are not getting too much in to the glass fibers.

[KCStudly]

Thanks for stopping in, Sheddie. I'm assuming your projects were with vinyl ester or polyester, perhaps with a separate epoxy barrier coat on the boat. Was the plastic sheet a dedicated peel ply or release fabric, or was it just hardware store plastic sheeting?

Everything I have read recommends doing lean wet outs of the cloth, then separate filler and barrier coats. Otherwise the cloth can float in excess epoxy, weighing more and making it weaker. The peel ply works by allowing the excess resin to slip thru the polyester or nylon weave, which it does not stick to. The weave creates a fracture point so when you peel it up (with great difficulty sometimes) it leaves a level surface with little excess epoxy and no need to remove amine or sand if additional bonding is required (such as for the filler and barrier coats.

I'd be interested to learn more about different methods.

There was a comment in here or the other thread about the composite shattering with an impact. Some of the reading I've been doing lately does indicate that polyester resin can do that, but epoxy doesn't seem to have that problem.

[OP827]

KC, dry on dry two layers in one pass and then carbon, glass and peel ply on top - video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc_7pwc38fw , so.. looks simple enough, eh?