Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers

Hi,

I love the idea of a foamie and I really appreciate all the enthusiasm and knowledge on this forum. So I do not mean to offend and hope this post is not taken as an insult. But, it should be said, I've got a really strong worry-wort in me, and I'm building this for little kids so....

1. Are there any health concerns with sleeping in a foamie? Not the CO2 concern, we will crack a window or run a fan or something, but more like does it continually off gas a flame retardant or something that will eventually turn little healthy lungs into swiss cheese?

2. Does it continually off gas some sort of extremely potent greenhouse gas, so using XPS is just hastening climate change?

3. Why is this post a sticky? The first few posts seem like they've been heavily edited or something. I'll add that I don't plan on leaving the the big boxer lab mix alone in the camper ever. She would figure out a way to destroy it.

I've got a highly concerned wife, the aforementioned little kids, and also some somewhat judgmental folks in my life regarding environmental health and impact. So I'd like to at least do a little due diligence. My lazy web surfing led me to ask these questions. I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, just turning to some enthusiastic foam supporters for insight.

Thanks!

Scott

To my knowledge the biggest hazard is the dust during fabrication, and possibly the fumes when it melts from hot wire cutting or, heaven forbid, in a fire.

Once it is built and encapsulated I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I think the reason this stuff got a bad rap in CA and has been banned there has more to do with the manufacturing process and post consumer waste disposal; that big junk pile floating out in the middle of the Pacific has a lot of people pissed off.

Wear a dust mask (or better yet a respirator) when cutting or sanding (... really should do this with wood, too...); clean your work area well with a good shop vac; collect all of your scraps in a big garbage bag, tightly closed, and dispose in your regular waste stream (unless local regs ban... not sure if any do or why they would).

Thanks!

Onward.......

Yes, the foam is totally encapsulated by waterproof glue and then many layers of paint. There should be no way for fumes to escape unless it is punctured and then since it is closed cell foam only a small amount would come out if there was any.

As far as environmental impact what are you comparing it to? Building your own foamie is more environmentally friendly than buying a commercially built one. There is a lot of pollution and waste in the process of manufacturing the parts, shipping them to the factory, building them in a factory that mostly cares about how many they can produce in a day, shipping them to the dealer, then the dealership operating till you buy it.

Is the foam approved for indoor use in houses? I have never checked.

And when kcstudly said dispose of the leftovers in the waste stream i think he meant a dumpster and not your local river
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While I'm not terribly concerned, in a house or other building most building and fire codes would require it not be exposed, and covered by 1/2" gypsum wallboard or similar. Whether canvas and glue, thin plywood, fibreglass, or other coverings are sufficient is hard to tell without testing.

Yes, "waste stream" in the civil engineering spirit of the term, not a natural running water stream.

Some people still have landfills, some transfer stations, some direct to energy burn plants, etc.

My trash goes to a burn plant located about three miles from Dow's Allyn's Point blue foam plant.

Dancan, I doubt it is really more environmentally friendly to build rather than buy.
First, all of your materials have to be shipped from manufacturer to retailer. More economical than shipping a whole camper, but not by much,
Next, all of the materials one will waste during the learning/r&d phase.
Also, the inefficiency of only being able to work a couple hours at a time (heating or cooling the workspace, clean-up time etc).
Finally, the multiple trips back and forth to the retailer to get the wrong parts or materials so many times before getting it right.
I'd say its a wash at best.
Gator


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Build or buy once, then keep it for a long time. That's environmentally friendly and conserving of resources. The guy who was given a car for college, then drove the same car for 80 years, was conserving resources (OK, it was a 1928 Rolls Royce; you do have to start with quality). That being said, you can build what you really want, and you can be sure of how it's built. Unless you pay a LOT, the RV industry has an unfortunate tendency to peddle junk that you WILL be replacing before long.

RE: health concerns ….. We had the misfortune to tour several FEMA Trailers after Katrina , and all Stunk of Chemicals ( Plywood , OSB, MDF ) etc.. One , handicapped trailer housed a friend with COPD , it reeked of Formaldehyde , she passed away months after living in the trailer ... Foam doesn’t give off any vapors like that we know of , or have experienced over these many years …
Proper Ventilation is always a Good idea …

I'm surprised that more foamie builders don't make use of the extensive experience available in the homebuilt aircraft industry. Builders of aircraft like the Rutan Long EZ have used expanded polystyrene and polyurethane foams for decades. These materials can be cut with a hot wire or carved and sanded into complex curved shapes, joined with a slurry of epoxy and microballoons, and covered in fiberglass and epoxy. When completely surrounded by fiberglass, the resulting composite structure is completely waterproof and immensely strong. Dissimilar materials like aluminum and wood can be fiberglassed to the structure to form structural attachment points and other features, or through holes surrounded by epoxy can be built in to provide attaching pads for bolts.

The boatbuilding industry also has extensive experience with wood and foam cored fiberglass structures.

A lot of people don't have the Money that Industry has ...

GPW wrote:A lot of people don't have the Money that Industry has ...

He’s talking about DIY aircraft. Home built stuff.

Tony


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Videobear wrote:I'm surprised that more foamie builders don't make use of the extensive experience available in the homebuilt aircraft industry. Builders of aircraft like the Rutan Long EZ have used expanded polystyrene and polyurethane foams for decades. These materials can be cut with a hot wire or carved and sanded into complex curved shapes, joined with a slurry of epoxy and microballoons, and covered in fiberglass and epoxy. When completely surrounded by fiberglass, the resulting composite structure is completely waterproof and immensely strong. Dissimilar materials like aluminum and wood can be fiberglassed to the structure to form structural attachment points and other features, or through holes surrounded by epoxy can be built in to provide attaching pads for bolts.

The boatbuilding industry also has extensive experience with wood and foam cored fiberglass structures.

I'm pretty sure that PMF evolved out of Fisher Flying Products covering system.

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I'm pretty sure that PMF evolved out of Fisher Flying Products covering system.

It looks like they are using dacron and Stewert Systems Adhesives?? Whatever that goo is?

Thanks,

Tony

tony.latham wrote:

I'm pretty sure that PMF evolved out of Fisher Flying Products covering system.

It looks like they are using dacron and Stewert Systems Adhesives?? Whatever that goo is?

Thanks,

Tony

Early on when dacron was still new and cotton/dope was still the only "approved" method, Fisher had a system that used lated house paint in conjunction with aluminum powder as a UV block. I don't remember the details, but it had good success and was inexpensive compared to the "approved" materials.

As for the Stewart stuff. It is water based and a great substitute for MEK based glues and finishes. I have never used it. It was coming in right as I was done covering airplanes.

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