YAF (Yet Another Foamie) project?

[TeriL]

Hi,

Reading about all the Foamie projects has stirred the blood in my brain. I would appreciate any comments and ideas.

I like the basic shape of Rayvillian's TD, especially the forward hinged top and rear entrance. Having the angled front section should help reduce drag too although I envision having a rounded vertical curve at the side for "sleekness". Having a "standy" is very desirable for putting on clothes and just to stretch if holed up from weather. Also it would keep me from feeling like I'm in a small tornado shelter. To minimize having to raised the roof too much maybe a drop down section like ?? (somebody remind me) made could be incororated too.

In another post on GPW's Zephyr, I joked (someone suggesting it looked like a Star Trek shuttle craft) maybe a rear ramp like many cargo trailers could be incorporated but have legs to keep it level when camping. It could serve as a small "patio" or balcony and with suitable sockets for poles to hold up an awning. It would serve as a place to keep out of mud or dust or just a place to put your muddy shoes before going inside.

Thinking about things, it occurred to me that since a Foamie can be so light, the trailer might be useable for cargo hauling by lifting off the Foamie at least temporarily. That affects the construction slightly by requiring a sill plate like in stick built house construction. Lifting lugs on the outsides would be incorporated as permanent "features". It would be bolted down of course just like a house with captive nuts or T-nuts. The bolts would come up from below as the foam doesn't allow topside tightening without carving out pockets in the foam (it might be a lot simpler). For some cargo hauling, temporary sides could be bolted down (if needed).

With the above idea, a sturdy deck would need to be built. I envision a sandwich of ply-foam-ply with epoxy and fiberglass on the edges (well overlapped on the faces) for water protection. The rest would be soaked many times by Glen's (GPW) secret sauce before a color layer (inside only). I want the deck to extend beyond the outer edges of the tires to maximize the interior volume which seems like a good thing (to quote Martha Stewart). The deck would also serve as a low work table for fabricating the walls and roof (and the sill plate). I may want to separate the deck from the trailer and place it on sawhorses to make it higher and easier on my back.

Reading of Eaglesdare difficult experience in applying her interior canvas, I plan on putting it on before attaching the sides and roof. Laying on my back (and the pain) with paint or glue dripping on me sounds like a bad experience. This would require making forms to curve the appropriate foampieces while applying the interior canvas. I fretted about having to cut up plywood to make the forms until I spotted a stack of drywall I have. Drywall for temporary forms seems like a cheap and easy to work material. I wouldn't feel too bad about discarding it after it has served it's function. I have also considered flipping the glued together walls and roof for applying the interior canvas and paint with better access. Having a sill plate would make that a possibility. I can imagine potential problems either way. What do you think?

There are many other considerations I have not written about above. When I think of them or others reply, I'll address them. What I outlined above requires detailed plans but being a retired engineer with a mild case of OCD (as all engineers need) I tend to a detailed planner first before making foam and wood dust. I'll fire up Sketchup and show images of my ideas soon.

-- Teri

[GPW]

Teri, many possibilities .... so let’s see those "engineering drawings” ...

[eaglesdare]

I will also admit, I have never finished covering the inside!

[GPW]

It was mentioned , some time ago that covering the insides would be Best done whilst FLAT... and gluing those covered parts together didn’t make any difference in gluing strength (the nature of Foam) ... and the fact that the the outer Skin would be holding Everything together anyway ... Everybody remembers that huh ?

[eaglesdare]

You are still rolling your eyes at me!

[GPW]

Naaaa!! Not At you ... With you !!! ... ....

[TeriL]

Postby GPW » 21 Apr 2014, 04:34
Teri, many possibilities .... so let’s see those "engineering drawings” ...

Whoa! I may old but I'm slow!
Give me a chance, I'm working on a SketchUp model now. Not sure you should call a SketchUp model an engineering drawing. Good enough for us amateurs.

by GPW » 21 Apr 2014, 09:44
It was mentioned , some time ago that covering the insides would be Best done whilst FLAT... and gluing those covered parts together didn’t make any difference in gluing strength (the nature of Foam) ... and the fact that the the outer Skin would be holding Everything together anyway ... Everybody remembers that huh ?

I remembered. That's what I'm planning to do to the walls but the curved roof is why I mused about making forms to shape it while the interior canvas is applied, otherwise the many kerfs would make an interesting ceiling as the canvas wrinkled over the kerfs. The kerfs could be on the outside but filling and smoothing would/could be a PITA. The exterior canvas for the roof and junction of the roof and walls would be applied after the walls and roof are glued together.

BTW, I was watching a "Fine Homebuilding" tip video last night and the presenter was cutting some thick (2") foam with a putty knife which was sharpened on one edge. It got me to thinking that two such putty knives could be held together by a wedge to make a "V" shaped kerfing knife. Most putty knives are pretty stiff. Just an idea.

-- Teri

[lthomas987]

I covered some kerfed foam in place on my tiny bike trailer. I am planning to do so again on my bigger trailer. In the first case I kerfed 1" foam about 3/4" deep. The inside actually is pretty smooth. I have kerfs every 1.25" but since I was curving around a half circle at a 10" radius that was necessary. My envelope back math about needing 3.5" less circumference on the outside vs the inside over my 36" piece of foam and my saw kerf... and some arithmetic.. and there I was. But the result was that there aren't a lot of bumps on the inside. I'll try and get a good picture in the light.

I have thought of building the whole wall panels, inserting windows, window reinforcements, door, and such and canvassing all before standing them up. so that in the end I'll canvas the roof inside and out but the walls would have been done flat. In the end I suppose it will come down to where I am and if I have help or not on the days I can work as to what order it all gets done in.

[TeriL]

Teri, many possibilities .... so let’s see those "engineering drawings” ...

Well... , you asked for it although these are engineer's sketches, NOT engineering drawings. I based it on a Harbor Freight "Heavy Duty" trailer. Their design leaves a lot to be desired. The step at the front and all the cross members on the cargo portion prevent a drop floor section I would like. I would probably make my own trailer and lower the deck by 8" or so and allow the drop floor for camping.

Here's are the travel mode views


and in camping mode


These are very rough sketches. A lot of details are missing and by no means are they dimensioned correctly. The hinged top overlaps the walls and I have not drawn the rain deflector (for travel) to keep water from just flying up (and probably) in the side gap. In camping mode, there is a generous overlap which should keep rain from entering except in a hurricane. I'll have to figure out some seal for that although I do not plan on camping in a hurricane.

The rear awning is sort of based on a canopy I had which had bungies keeping the tarp taut within the roof frame. The frame was made of regular EMT (my favorite building material) with just slip on welded corner pieces. I drew the front cross pole with just cable tie and bungies on the rear cross pole. I didn't draw the spreader poles.

I drew the flip down rear balcony/deck which I think might be a handy extension of "living space" in moderate rain. Supports to level it out are still under consideration. As my design philosophy is K.I.S.S. , I'm looking for a simple, light solution and most of all, cheap!

Colors shown are only for illustration purposes to distinguish the various parts. Final colors TBD and I'd appreciate some some design graphics ideas.

Any way, let the comments fly and I'll reply or modify the design (which is inevitable). Give me a few minutes to put on my asbestos flame suit.

Remember, I may be old but I'm slow

-- Teri

[Mary C]

Well .....I like the concept and I think very doable. after building mine, I know you can do it. I will be very interested to see you accomplish it.

I will hang around to watch the fluff fly. I have faith you can build it!!! just think through the moving parts and how to accomplish that before you cut.

Mary C.

[GPW]

T, those “sketches" are More than adequate to see your intent.

Looks Good !!! Certainly “buildable” ... Now you may want to construct a rudimentary mock up ( just defining the space) to determine if that space is “comfortable” for you ... Basically I put chalk marks on the floor , put all my “stuff” inside and see if it fits... a "story stick" to indicate heights at various positions is simple .

[TeriL]

by Mary C » 22 Apr 2014, 22:52
Well .....I like the concept and I think very doable. after building mine, I know you can do it. I will be very interested to see you accomplish it.

by GPW » 23 Apr 2014, 07:45
T, those “sketches" are More than adequate to see your intent.

Looks Good !!! Certainly “buildable” ...

Thanks Mary and Glen,

Much design work still. It occurred to me as I woke up this morning, I haven't any windows! No way would I stay in a windowless trailer unless it was my only alternative from bad weather. The split presents a problem for windows, or is an opportunity?

As I said, I don't like how the HF trailer I used in the sketches is so high. I'll look around for a regular boat trailer which are generally lower. The HF trailer is higher because it's a folding design for storage.

I'm more of a sketch it on my computer gal than chalk on floor. The chalk (or tape) on floor is good for getting a better feel but walls change that perspective too. I imagine you (Glen) as an artist, are very much a visual person. A scale model is good too but more work. Good though to have in the house to show visitors what I'm working on.

More computer work ...

-- Teri

[WizardOfOdds]

“Much design work still.”

I am a real believer in trying a lot of ideas before deciding on any design. That’s why I elected to build a ‘test bed’ first. See my posts for more details.
http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56232
I (now ) call it the Tip Top Tier Drop - 50 . Yes ‘TIER Drop’ not ‘Tear Drop’! The 50 refers to 50% increase in interior volume when opened (I also framed a 75% and a 100%). It literally is a test bed because it was a test to see how we liked the bed (not just in the horizontal plane but also vertically as you sit up and rise out of the bed) as well as the storage under it.

“It occurred to me as I woke up this morning, I haven't any windows! No way would I stay in a windowless trailer unless it was my only alternative from bad weather. The split presents a problem for windows, or is an opportunity?”

On the Tip Top Tear Drop I put the windows on the sides at the extreme rear and in the top half of the door. We like LOTS of ventilation, so you may find our side windows too big, but I like them that way. Initially I had a solid door with windows on both sides of the door top. When I abandoned my early rear panel & door, I replaced the window pair with a single window in the door top and found that a better alternative. On this temp-build test bed I just use plastic panes and usually remove them during travel. Unless it is cold or raining, we replace the window panes with screens, one, two or all three. On a real build, I plan to use a more conventional approach.

[TeriL]

by WizardOfOdds » 23 Apr 2014, 22:12

“Much design work still.”

I am a real believer in trying a lot of ideas before deciding on any design. That’s why I elected to build a ‘test bed’ first. See my posts for more details.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56232
I (now ) call it the Tip Top Tier Drop - 50 ...

Hi Wizard,

I've already drawn a new version. Like you I realized the low front cut down on headroom. So I did a second design with a higher front and hinge. My first version was an attempt to minimize drag but sometimes compromises are necessary. I remember reading of a German aerodynamicist who studied how much a simple sharp edge box's drag could be reduced. He found that rounding the corners off the front resulted in a significant reduction. Unfortunately, large radius rounded edges is a lot of effort to actually build. My design is a compromise with a modestly sloped front roof and rounded side walls to front walls. I'll post images soon.

I re-read your thread. I had forgotten about your build. I've been hanging out in the Foamie section. Apparently we realized the same things. My build WILL be out of foam and canvas. Thanks Glen, et al for all your pioneering work.

I'm a CAD person. My introduction over 30 years ago was a lot head scratching and head banging. I wished I had taken some classes but after many holes in the wall from my head banging I learned. Learning CAD takes a certain personality and ability to visualize which I already had. Sketchup is what I use now although it is not really a CAD program but the 3D capability can be useful for visualization. CAD allows you to pivot sections of the design easily. That's how I showed the travel and camping views.

On the Tip Top Tear Drop I put the windows on the sides at the extreme rear and in the top half of the door. We like LOTS of ventilation, so you may find our side windows too big, but I like them that way.

I too like lots of windows and will design them in. Ventilation in a warmer climate (desert SW) is essential unless you have AC but I dislike campgrounds with AC power and most of my camping has been in National Forests and "primative" camping in National Parks. I like the peace and just nature's sounds.

-- Teri

[mezmo]

Hi TeriL,

Check out this Foamie build:
Army Goose - First Trip Report

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=49879

It is not exactly like what you're proposing but it may have some
helpful hints or ideas. Your design looks to me to be somewhat of
a cross between this approach and the various iterations of Mike's
Winter Warrior design that have been done on here.

http://www.mikenchell.com/winterwarriorpage.html

And here is another "test-bed" build that may be of help to finalize your design:

Tier Drop 50 Experimental Testbed
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56232

And here's a nice Australian Off-Road design that looks quite similar to your
proposed design:
http://www.innovan.com.au/
http://www.innovan.com.au/xc-off-road-caravan.htm


Cheers,
Norm/mezmo