Four Person Foamies

[greaper007]

First off, thank you to all the contributors.

I'm interested in building a camper as most of our camping is done in the Rockies and my wife and kids invariably get too cold to sleep in a tent. I don't really like pop ups, they always seem to end up smelling bad and still tend to get fairly cold. The only TV we have is a 2000 Toyota Sienna (3500 lbs tow rating).

I'd love to make a foamie that can sleep 4, fits in the slipstream of the van, has a GVWR under 2800 lbs, and has an outdoor kitchen. I've done some searches and can't really find a vehicle that fits those criteria. It wouldn't have to be large, but I'd like it to be able to fit four sleeping adults. So maybe 12 ft long with some sort of multi-tier sleeping arrangement where the bunks overlap. I don't care about pretty, but I would like something that was functional and affordable.

I'm not opposed to designing something on my own, but I find it's always advantageous to stand on the shoulders of giants.

[Ned B]

Welcome to the foamies! Take a look at the foamstream thread for a sizable yet still lightweight design.

[KCStudly]

Dan Lott's Modified 2+2 Trolley Top was the first that came to my mind, but maybe a bigger challenge for the first time builder.

+1 on the Foamstream; it could be made into a bunkhouse pretty easily.

[atahoekid]

The nose on the foamstream could be a lot of work and is hard to do without billets of foam but you can easily modify the nose to look like the rounded off noses of many current lightweight trailers (helps with the aero). I used a frame from an old pop up trailer as the basis of mine. It sits well behind the profile of my Ford F250 truck is about 14 feet long, 7 feet wide and just over 6 foot tall, is still pretty light even though I paid minimal attention to the weight issue. If you play with those dimensions a bit you could get it to aerodynamically hide behind the Sienna and still have room for 4 sleeping. I put a bank of shelves and cabinets across the nose of mine, perhaps you could do a crosswise bunk in the nose of yours. I also have a very ample galley, you might be able to squeeze some space out from that to give you more bed space.

To give you an idea of how light and aerodynamic it is, I get better mileage pulling the Road Foamie than I do on my daily driving, albeit, not as good as when I do highway driving without it and I recently pulled a small 5 x 8 UHaul trailer with just a dinette set in it and got worse mileage than with my Road Foamie.

Glad to have you on board.

Hope that helps... This is a good group, so ask questions and you'll get answers

[GPW]

Yes , like Mel said , the FoamSteam might be a little tricky to construct, but not impossible ( I made one eh ? ) Lots of simpler ways of building a Bigger camper ... Perhaps something on the order of Mels’ ( ) or a Low Wider... design your inside space requirements first , then you have something to go by ...

[greaper007]

Great replies everyone. After my participation on some other forums, it's hard to believe how helpful everyone on here is.

I like the ideas everyone has posted and they're giving me some thoughts. The biggest thing that's throwing me right now is figuring out how to get a trailer that's the right size for the project. It seems like this would have to be custom built, and that would probably kill the cost savings as I don't have a welder. Though using an old pop up is a great idea. Anyone have one for sale in the Denver area?

I'm also considering a standard sized foamie TD and building a folding bed platform in the van. The wife and kids could sleep in the td and I could take the van (or just sleep outside in a tent or hammock). The TD is really more for them as they're the ones that can't take camping in the cold. It would also alleviate my concerns for the transmission with towing in the mountains.

I'll have to think on this one.

[kudzu]

What about a push me:pull you type TD? You'd have a low roofline, extra long TD with essentially two cabins inside, one front and one rear. Kids could have one cabin. You and your wife get the other. You could put a wall with doorway between the two cabins or do an archway as shown in GP's drawing with curtains. That would add strength to help add rigidity needed for extra long foamie sidewalls. You'd also want two doors on at least one side, one for each cabin area.

Suggesting this idea because it's my belief that width and height have a greater effect on aerodynamics than length. So building longer is more logical than building up or out to make space for four. Sometimes (most often?) adding length has either minimal effect on aerodynamics or can even improve it, depending on design. The extra length will add weight but it's the trailer frame contributing to most of that, not so much the foam constructed part.

OK, it may sound strange but I thought I'd just offer the idea.

[eaglesdare]

My hubby sleeps in a tent when he comes with us. My dog Simba and I get the Foamie.

[greaper007]

What about a push me:pull you type TD? You'd have a low roofline, extra long TD with essentially two cabins inside, one front and one rear. Kids could have one cabin. You and your wife get the other. You could put a wall with doorway between the two cabins or do an archway as shown in GP's drawing with curtains. That would add strength to help add rigidity needed for extra long foamie sidewalls. You'd also want two doors on at least one side, one for each cabin area.

Suggesting this idea because it's my belief that width and height have a greater effect on aerodynamics than length. So building longer is more logical than building up or out to make space for four. Sometimes (most often?) adding length has either minimal effect on aerodynamics or can even improve it, depending on design. The extra length will add weight but it's the trailer frame contributing to most of that, not so much the foam constructed part.

OK, it may sound strange but I thought I'd just offer the idea.

I've had the same thought about the length being less important than other dimensions. I'm not familiar with a push me pull me design except for regards to a propeller arrangement on an airplane, do you perhaps have an example of the design?

Also, has anyone thought of using a boat tail instead of a traditional curved hatch? It seems like it would be easier to build and it would add considerably to aerodynamics. There's a modified civic hatchback that gets in excess of 70 mpg with this design (along with some other aeromods).

[be_a_jayhawk]

I don't know how I didn't see this sooner. I'm a state away in KC. I am mid build on a foamie gor 4 to pull behind my 2001 Sienna. I need to keep mine under 2000 pounds so I don't have to tag it. Anyway feel free to click on my name and pull up my build thread.

[mezmo]

Hi greaper007,

Welcome to the forum. One of the most interesting shapes for "aeroness"
that I've come across is on the High-End [Expensive] new Off-Road Caravan
by Ultimate Campers in Australia:
http://www.ultimateoffroadcampers.com.a ... /nautilus/

Just emulate that shape, lower it towards the ground some [as it has very
high ground clearance], size it to the TowVee's [Tow Vehicle's] cross-sectional
area, be sure to radius/round-over all the edges/panel joins, and build it on a
galvanized repurposed boat trailer, and you should be off to camp in 'no time'.
[No need for the pop-top or bed slideout in a TD approach.]

This thread may also be helpful to you: Foamie Aerodynamics
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=49036

Here's a fast Paint drawing I did of a "Tandem [As in sleeping] TD", as one
possible approach you could take. The Trailer body would be about
5ft to 5ft6in wide and tall [to match the Van], with two 6ft6in long compartments,
the first with room for a queen sized bed, and the second housing a curbside galley
and a 3ft wide bunk set. Three doors should be the minimum used for bed access,
but four would make it much more easy to use.
[Click on the image for a larger view.]


Have fun with your planning and build.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

[rowerwet]

Also, has anyone thought of using a boat tail instead of a traditional curved hatch? It seems like it would be easier to build and it would add considerably to aerodynamics. There's a modified civic hatchback that gets in excess of 70 mpg with this design (along with some other aeromods).

A boat tail looks cool, but in reality airflow separates from the tear at about the hatch hinge on your average tear. A slight taper (15 degree) ending in a square back would be just as aerodynamic.
The big reason to not have a boat tail, you loose galley width, cooking for four people you will want as much counter space ( length) as possible.