Working with flashing and beading

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby OP827 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:27 am

ghcoe wrote:
OP827 wrote:Hi George,
Thanks for recording your experience here. I think your method is interesting and useful. I should save time vs. using wood inserts etc.
Did you try using PL Premium adhesive for installing flashing to foam?


I have not used PL Premium. I do believe others here have attempted to use it for some other applications and were not very pleased with the results. Lately I have been using regular caulking with great results with bonding. I bonded the flashing around my doors with it and then realized I had to remove it. Foam tore out before the caulking gave way. Make me a believer. Just make sure you clean flashing and beading real well. I use alcohol to wipe it down with.


Maybe I should do a sample. Previously I did glue ply to xps foam with PL Premium and it was the strongest joint out of many I have tested, except epoxy. I think a clean metal surface is the key and second, being one component polyurethane, it needs some air access to cure properly. Probably best would be any brand 2K polyurethane adhesive (Polyol and Isocyanate Hardener) that will hold best and does not require air to cure, though it is not available in retail.
My foldable foam trailer build: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61344
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby Toby » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:39 am

So, let me get this straight. Metal to foam using Great Stuff (GS) or Latex Caulking (LC). Paint the metal with Gripper to get TB2 for canvasing to stick. Has anyone gotten results back with the Gripper/TB2 combination yet?
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby ghcoe » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:01 am

Toby wrote:So, let me get this straight. Metal to foam using Great Stuff (GS) or Latex Caulking (LC). Paint the metal with Gripper to get TB2 for canvasing to stick. Has anyone gotten results back with the Gripper/TB2 combination yet?


I do believe a few people have applied canvas over Gripper or other latex based paints. Not sure about the metal flashing/beading combo though besides myself. There was one who applied plastic beading with gripper and then canvased over that. That build has had some usage without issues as far as I know. I believe the TBII bonds well to the Gripper in my experiences with using it in that combo. As long as the Gripper sticks well to the metal all should go well. You can check out my canvasing procedure starting on page 28 of my build listed below. I used gripper a lot to help in the fairing process with spackle. At one point I had to cut the canvas straight once it was bonded to the body. The result when I pulled the canvas strip off the body was gripper and spackle pulled off with it down to the foam layer. So yes I believe TB II bonds well to Gripper and Gripper bonds well to most everything else.

CAM01149s.jpg
TBII, Gripper, Flashing and Canvas
CAM01149s.jpg (104.53 KiB) Viewed 1629 times
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby tac422 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:29 pm

ghcoe wrote: There was one who applied plastic beading with gripper and then canvased over that. That build has had some usage without issues as far as I know.


I suspect that's The Big Pink you're thinking about . :D
I used Gripper to glue plastic drywall molding on all exposed edges, inside and out. (use quilting straight pins or wood skewers to hold in place until dry.)
The gripper worked great and it has held up extremely well for a couple years now.

My build shows that starting here ...
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=56441&start=15


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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby Toby » Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:13 pm

I finally found some 2x2in flashing. Actually I found two types; one is 0.01 thickness and weighs 1.4# (E4 Galvinizer Edge) and the other one is 25 gauge and weighs 2.44 ( 2 in. x 2 in. x 10 foot angle). I'm inclined to go with the heavier flashing. Both at HD. What do you think?
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby ghcoe » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:20 pm

If using for attachment points I would probably go with the heavier. If just for edge hardening I don't think it would matter much.
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby ghcoe » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:22 pm

Toby wrote:So, let me get this straight. Metal to foam using Great Stuff (GS) or Latex Caulking (LC). Paint the metal with Gripper to get TB2 for canvasing to stick. Has anyone gotten results back with the Gripper/TB2 combination yet?


Ok a little test this weekend does show that indeed TBII bonds to Gripper. In fact, I think this combo may be a better bond than just using TBII to foam. It seems the gripper bonds better to the foam than TBII and TBII bonds real well to Gripper.... :thumbsup:

So I had a piece of foam that was coated with Gripper on one side and was bare foam on the other. I took some painters paper and glued it to both sides of the foam.

Once dried I tried to peal the paper off of the foam that just had TBII applied. I was able to easily get my fingernail under the paper and pull it away from the foam.

DSCF4062.JPG
TBII to foam
DSCF4062.JPG (149.47 KiB) Viewed 1250 times


Now for the side with Gripper. I had a hard time getting ahold of the paper with my fingernail. Once I did get ahold of it, it was hard to try and get the paper to peel up and would tear. As you can see the TBII and Gripper bond never failed. You can see where I had to gouge into the foam to try and get the paper to lift up.

DSCF4063.JPG
Gripper with TBII
DSCF4063.JPG (156.8 KiB) Viewed 1250 times


Finally I was able to get a good grip on the paper and was able to carefully pull the paper back. It was harder to pull back than with just the TBII and paper. So this makes be a believer that the Gripper is a viable medium to apply before the application of TBII for a good bond to dissimilar materials.

DSCF4064.JPG
Gripper and TBII removed from foam
DSCF4064.JPG (154.45 KiB) Viewed 1250 times
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby GPW » Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:05 am

THANKS !!!! That’s a Great test !!! :thumbsup: :applause: Now we know !!! ;) We need a Test sticky' ... a place for new builders to find out what’s been tested and what works for sure ... Without it , this valuable information is quickly “lost" in the archives ... and that’s a shame !

GH, possessed of such great thoughts , maybe you can suggest some type of flashing thingie’ we can use on the rounded nose of our trailer ... Going for a “drip edge” effect. Right now I’ve got Al tape and Gorilla tape doing the temporary service ( Picture) ... :roll: Need to come up with something elegantly simple , like flashing perhaps ... :thinking: Any ideas ???
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby ghcoe » Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:42 pm

GPW wrote: GH, possessed of such great thoughts , maybe you can suggest some type of flashing thingie’ we can use on the rounded nose of our trailer ... Going for a “drip edge” effect. Right now I’ve got Al tape and Gorilla tape doing the temporary service ( Picture) ... :roll: Need to come up with something elegantly simple , like flashing perhaps ... :thinking: Any ideas ???


I have not tried this but have thought about running this flashing along the bottom edge of a foamie. I think it would also make a cool design line too. So I would use the wide edge up against the side of the trailer then the sort flange would go up against the bottom of the floor. I would use that flange for a hard attachment such as screws if you wanted to. To make the front curve I would take tin snips and cut slots into the short flange every 1" or so. The rest should bend just fine. I would use caulking to glue the large side up against the wall.

Image


The good thing is this stuff is pretty thrifty and if you don't like it your not out much. So maybe it is time for a test..... :thumbsup:
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby GPW » Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:25 am

That looks pretty workable !!! Thanks !!! :thumbsup:
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby pchast » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:50 pm

What about some of the composites used to replace wood trim on
houses. I understand it can be pretty flexible?
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby ghcoe » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:24 pm

pchast wrote:What about some of the composites used to replace wood trim on
houses. I understand it can be pretty flexible?


Yes, some are flexible but they are expensive.
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby smit0577 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:32 am

I took a casual stroll through HD and didn't see any 2X2 flashing - everything had some sort of drip cap/edge/shape thing that didn't look like what you're using (straightforward L shape). There were rolls of flat flashing that I suppose one could bend, but, that sounds like a real project.

Then, in my lurking on this awesome forum I came across this:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60264

It shows how a pop rivet tool works (which is cool for me to see) and I'm wondering if you have any comments on how this technique relates to yours. The only stuff available is 1 5/8, so it would be useful only on 1 1/2 foam, but at least that forces a decision...)

Thanks!
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby greygoos » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:11 am

smit0577 wrote:I took a casual stroll through HD and didn't see any 2X2 flashing - everything had some sort of drip cap/edge/shape thing that didn't look like what you're using (straightforward L shape). There were rolls of flat flashing that I suppose one could bend, but, that sounds like a real project.

Then, in my lurking on this awesome forum I came across this:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60264

It shows how a pop rivet tool works (which is cool for me to see) and I'm wondering if you have any comments on how this technique relates to yours. The only stuff available is 1 5/8, so it would be useful only on 1 1/2 foam, but at least that forces a decision...)

Thanks!


In my local HD they keep the 2 X 2 in with the metal studs and nobody but nobody could find it. I dug dozens of studs out of the way and found it buried underneath.
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Re: Working with flashing and beading

Postby ghcoe » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:13 pm

smit0577 wrote:I took a casual stroll through HD and didn't see any 2X2 flashing - everything had some sort of drip cap/edge/shape thing that didn't look like what you're using (straightforward L shape). There were rolls of flat flashing that I suppose one could bend, but, that sounds like a real project.

Then, in my lurking on this awesome forum I came across this:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60264

It shows how a pop rivet tool works (which is cool for me to see) and I'm wondering if you have any comments on how this technique relates to yours. The only stuff available is 1 5/8, so it would be useful only on 1 1/2 foam, but at least that forces a decision...)

Thanks!


It seems that every HD or Lowes I go to their flashing and beading are never in the same areas. I would ask or check on their website. The website will show if it is available at a store near you.

That is a crimping tool not a pop rivet tool shown on that thread. I never used a crimping tool with my construction. I have used a pop rivet gun a lot though. Pop rivets work great with flashing.

Here I am using a template to drill a 3/16" hole for a rivet. At this location I am attaching a shelf channel to the door frame. The shelf channel runs along the front of the shelf to the opposite side of the trailer where it will be also pop riveted to the other door frame.

DSCF3188 small.jpg
template
DSCF3188 small.jpg (89.94 KiB) Viewed 786 times


Then I inserted a 3/16" rivet into the hole and used the pop rivet gun to set the rivet.

DSCF3177 small.jpg
gun
DSCF3177 small.jpg (92.48 KiB) Viewed 786 times


This is the rivet once it is "popped" into place.

DSCF3190 small.jpg
rivet
DSCF3190 small.jpg (93.17 KiB) Viewed 786 times
Last edited by ghcoe on Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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