R board insulation rigid foam for a foamie?

[OP827]

Anyone tried the R board from Atlas -http://www.atlasroofing.com/continuous-wall-insulation/rboard/tab/r-value ? There are other manufacturers too. I am in Canada and IKO make them, called IKOtherm in Canada. It seems to be strong enough for foamie and it has fiberglass already glued to both sides so should be amuch better adhesion to fiberglass or canvas.. so I would think it could have a better structural properties and less delamination potential issues, and it is a better insulation than blue or pink ridig foam too. Comression strength is comparable to pink and blue at 20psi.

I am considering it for my build. I may just go and pick one to play with.

Thanks for all your input.

[OP827]

I learned about this kind of rigid foam material from this very interesting "fastest folding shanty" build, the builder was praising it very high -
http://s248.photobucket.com/user/michianiafisherman/media/WorldsFastestShanty.mp4.html
http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/index.php?topic=163737.0

[Shar]

I built a foamie this spring; I didn't know about this product or I might have been tempted. You might want to experiment with it a little.

[OP827]

I built a foamie this spring; I didn't know about this product or I might have been tempted. You might want to experiment with it a little.

And it is made by IKO next to you Sheryl in High River, AB. The price from Consolidated Gypsum seems right around 13CAD$ for 1-1/2" 4'x4' and they sell them by piece, not by bundle so I may as well take one 4x4 home tomorrow to check it out and report here then.

I already have two bundles of pink foam sitting in my garage, but this new foam seems to be fire resistant and all other good stuff as mentioned above, so we shall see. Kijiji is always open for business..

[GPW]

Sure looks good on paper eh ? Somebody’s just HAS to try this material .... a test ... Nice it comes in different thicknesses too ...

[desertmoose]

I used foil faced polyisocyanurate insulation in my trailer. The foil made gluing to it problematic, so it's mostly just trapped in the structure. The glue I used on the foil was construction adhesive.

It does have a higher r-value than expanded polystyrene, but it more expensive to boot.

One important caution, DO NOT cut it with hot wire. It give off very toxic fumes if you do.
Use a saw to cut instead.

Our walls are paneling, 1-1/2 foam. 1/2 ply, with canvas and paint. Very stout (overbuilt). We are snug as bugn in a run inside it though. Even when it's below freezing and real windy outside.

If I ever do another build, I'll use paneling/ luan on the inside, 1-1/2 foam, and luan/1/4 ply on the outside with canvas and paint.

Sam

[OP827]

I used foil faced polyisocyanurate insulation in my trailer. The foil made gluing to it problematic, so it's mostly just trapped in the structure. The glue I used on the foil was construction adhesive.

It does have a higher r-value than expanded polystyrene, but it more expensive to boot.

One important caution, DO NOT cut it with hot wire. It give off very toxic fumes if you do.
Use a saw to cut instead.

Our walls are paneling, 1-1/2 foam. 1/2 ply, with canvas and paint. Very stout (overbuilt). We are snug as bugn in a run inside it though. Even when it's below freezing and real windy outside.

If I ever do another build, I'll use paneling/ luan on the inside, 1-1/2 foam, and luan/1/4 ply on the outside with canvas and paint.

Sam

Sam,
The one I am talking about and going to sample test is covered with fibreglass mesh (http://www.iko.com/products/thermal-insulations/ikotherm/), not foil, so it should be hopefully easy to laminate with another layer of canvas or fibreglass with epoxy OR
even cheaper polyester bondo, I need to check and yes, I would not cut it with hotwire, only mechanical cutting tools.
Looks like it is me to test. Will go pick up a sheet tomorrow and later will report on my observations when I will have some time.
Oleg

[OP827]

Sure looks good on paper eh ? Somebody’s just HAS to try this material .... a test ... Nice it comes in different thicknesses too ...

Any suggestions for the test samples, GPW? I got two samples of the panels today, one is 1" thick fibreglass faced (CAD13$/sheet 4x4) , the other is 1" thick brown paper faced (CAD10$/4x4).
Fibreglass faced is feeling prety stiff as manufactured already.
Cheers!

[GPW]

OP, no use gluing them together , we know that will work .... Perhaps covering one side with some scraps of fabric and glue ... see how that does ... From your description it sounds very usable ...

Pictures would be good too .... we Love pictures ...

[OP827]

I do not really know what I want to test after I checked them out.., cut with table saw and knife, produce very clean cuts.
1. The board with fibreglass sides is something like an acrylic/latex paint with very thin fibreglass felt/mat and may only require another layer of fabric with paint.
2. The board with brown paper got me really thiking about possibilities... it is 30% cheaper and the paper could be impregnated with polyurethane and then coated with fabric. I am also thinking of cuting it and gluing it as a torsion box structure, where structural properties are more important... like this with lamination on top and bottom, similar to honeycomb, more work though:


Overall I have no doubts that the fabric will stick extremely well to both kind of facers. The fabric would be easily separated if peeled off from the foam as the foam itself is much weaker than the lamination, but this would be the same with pink foam. The hardness of the foam is similar to rigid pink foam I already have (Foamular 300), but I tend to think it is slightly softer (maybe equivalent of Foamular 200) and the product datasheet states that it is 20psi on 10% deformation which is the same as Foamular 200 foam. Here are the photos:




The material seems to be suitable for a teardrop foamie, but I have no experience here and everyone should decide for him/herself. As far as my built concerned, I dont really know what I want to do yet. I already have the pink foam and it really depends how finaly I will build it and how much and what reinforcements I'll need.. too many variables yet with my build, keeps me awake sometimes .

What do you guys think of the material?
Oleg

[GPW]

Thanks for the pictures , it looks familiar .... One test comes to mind ... the breaking test .... some foams are more brittle than others ... The pink and blue foams can take a sharp impact and have only local damage , a brittle foam may break or shatter ? ... just a thought ... To test , just make a small piece without the FG or paper backing (removed) and break it ... does it compress and bend first before breaking , or does it break cleanly in a snap ...
There was a brown (tan) foam on the market that was Crumbly in nature , when crushed turned into smaller particles.... you don’t want that ...

[OP827]

GPW, I tried to bend and snap both the 1-1/2" pink Foamular 300 and this 1" thick polyiso, they both snap in a similar way: bend slightly, a litlle wrinkle starts to form on the compressed surface and then... snap cleanly apart. Polyiso panel snaps with less effort due to less thickness and hardness than foam. Structurally with this test the pink foam "feels" better for the lack of a more "scientific" term This polyiso material is definitely not crumbling, but structurally the pink, again, "feels" slightly better, for me at least. So maybe it is time to call it a day and stick with original plan ? I did several lamination glue-ups with waterproof PVA and FG, waiting for them to fully dry and cure and then will report, but I do not forsee any big discoveries there, i.e. the thicker/stronger the laminate on the foam side, the better it will work as a structure.. Any foam will not work if there is no good structural skin attached. Thanks for supporting the discussion!

[OP827]

Since we all like pictures, here is the picture of lamination samples faced with 1 FG layer and waterproof PVA (TB2 equivalent), left to right:
- 1" polyiso brown paper faced cut in strips to form structural torsion box structure both sides.
- 1-1/2" Foamular 300 pink foam
- 1" fiberglass faced polyiso
- 1" brown paper faced polyiso

[GPW]

Thanks for the testing , we all benefit from that !!!

[OP827]

I did destructive tests today by tearing the laminations apart from the foam and here are the results with pictures:

1. Fibreglass facer polyiso foam. Adhesion of both glue lamination and facer is stronger than foam, the separation was in foam. Note the little bumps that are from manufacturing, if there were many smal and deeper penetrations like those, the force to separate the foam from the laminate would have to be greater. Force requried was in the middle of the samples range, but more than with pink foam lamination.

2. Brown paper faced polyiso foam. This one has separated through the paper as being the weakest. Force required was less than all other samples.

3. Torsion box glueup showed the strongest bond to lamination of all due to paper ribs adhesion to the laminate, was actually somewhat difficult to tear apart.
Pink foam lamination strength was in a mid range, slightly weaker than fibreglass faced polyiso foam.


Hope it gives everyone an idea of these polyiso panels. I would consider using FG faced ones. They could be a good solution for flat panels as they are straight as manufactured, have smooth white surface (no imprints like on pink). I understand why the gentleman who built the "world fastest folding shanty" liked them. The cost in my area is similar as pink foam, considering the fact it will require no sanding and already has one strong layer of fibreglass mat glued. With thickness like 2" they could be good "as is" for a small foamie with corners and joints taped and glued.
That could be a very fast foamie built, but again, for more or less flat panels. They do have some flex, and light curves are possible with thinner material, or another crazy idea is to delaminate and then laminate the FG mat after the curve is done in place.. don't know, that would another experiment. When teared apart the FG laminate comes off the foam only with elastic deformations, i.e. intact, like a thin Filon, so it could be easily re-glued ... on the small sample I did. The foam in my sample test case separated cleanly which may not be the case with bigger panels.

I will be using the pink foam I already have as I see no big reasons to switch (sell and then buy again ), both materials have their place. Polyiso has better temperature range and was around in sandwiched composites for a while now, but there are some cons too, check MSDS.

Cheers !