Tyrtill's Collapsible Foamy

[amandacreiglow]

Welcome back!

Thanks!


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[amandacreiglow]

My plan is to extend the frame a little on the tongue and off the back (12").


I planned on using "the mix" on the wood and bolting it to the frame. Is the mix going to be enough?

Also I'm working on a glue test. I'll check them this weekend (its pretty cold here)

So, what is it you’re going to be testing the glues for? What’s your priority? Are you only worrying about bond strength, or are you factoring in other things as well? (Finish look, fire resistance, ease of application, etc) and sorry if I missed it, but what’s the behr that you’re testing, and why do some have wood and some not?

As for the frame, I’ve trying to figure out if putting on an aluminum channel/square tube extension would work for that trailer. If you did that, you could avoid the question of waterproofing structural trailer wood altogether, and you should save some weight. The whole thing is just bolted together to begin with, so bolting it on would be a possibility. Otherwise, blazing aluminum seems doable for a diyer and doesn’t require a welder. Haven’t actually done it though... just throwing it out there.


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[Tyrtill]

The glue testing was just a personal thing I hoped to share but my camera didn't EDIT: DID!!! save the video. I was checking bond strength to different surfaces. All foam surfaces were sanded and wipe down with 92% isopropyl alcohol. All wood surfaces were scraps unprepared from my wood pile (1x3 furring strips). The fabric was an old T-Shirt that I cut into strips. The only two that didn't have wood were my Titebond 2 with holes vs Titebond 2 just sanded test.

The results of the test were:
Canvas to Foam
1.) WINNER Glidden Gripper - Dried fast best overall bond foam to canvas.
2.) BEHR exterior - Close to the same as gripper better than the titebond 2 but not worth the price
3.) Titebond 2 everyone already knows is good enough. I did a test strip with holes poked and without and didn't really notice a difference between the two.

Canvas to Wood
1.) Titebond 2 - Great hold where it was dry. After three days with temperatures in the 30s-70s wasn't completely dry. However where it was dry either the canvas or the wood was failing.
2.) Glidden Gripper - Dried fast good hold
3.) BEHR exterior - Complete failure of the glue peeled right off.

Wood to Foam
1.) Glidden Gripper - Dried fast good hold mostly foam failure some glue failure.
2.) Titebond 2 - Good foam hold pulling up large chunks. Wasn't dry in middle and glue failure in those parts.
3.) BEHR exterior - Good foam hold but more areas with glue failure than the others.

On the subject of the extra trailer framing I wholeheartedly agree adding more aluminum would be the best way to go but maybe not the easiest or cheapest. I finished the front wood section and it was 9.6lbs. The rear wood section ended up being 19.6 lbs. These are without the mix so I may remeasure once they're fully soaked. The ease of wood working as well as the availability made me go this route. Its unfortunately going to rain for the next 2 days so I'll be lucky if I can get the rear wood frame done.

[John61CT]

Yes I need a strong roof rack for heavy loading, so figure on metal rather than wood.

Thinking an exoskeleton with a "pop-up" function, keeping intrusions though the removable foamie "living pod" top / bottom halves to a minimum.

Top half maybe "hanging" from the top rack when parked and lifted, sitting firmly on the bottom when lowered for travel.

[GPW]

A metal frame (for strength) with a Foam covering (lightness) would be really practical … !!! Maybe check out aircraft construction methods … And Folding too … Interesting idea eh !!! …

[Tyrtill]

Two things today. Have we decided that gripper makes for a better canvas glue than Titebond II? I thought I saw GPW saying that the T2 led to failure of the fabric on the foamstream but the gripper didn't.

Also I'm trying to figure out my floor detail for connection. I want a layer of foam under my plywood for warmth and hopefully some protection.

I haven't found a lot of info on how to do such a thing. I found that bonnie did a foam floor but the details weren't clear especially on how to connect it to the trailer.

From http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=70015&p=1228310&hilit=ectomy#p1228310

Bonnie took your first foamie off the frame?

Yup. Complete floor-ectomy. I stuck a thumb through the old one. Flipped it on it's top and put a new all foam floor on it. Picture shows it all glued down. I have it back on the frame. Working on the doors now. I got three windows put in.

My current thoughts are:
Have the foam glued to the bottom of the plywood and wrap the PMF around everything. My concerns are that there is no canvas glued to the plywood and this might hurt the "sock" connection.


Have the Foam Glued to the plywood only in the cavities of the trailer. My concerns are that there would be bridging and I would get condensation where the trailer crossmember touch the plywood.


Have a foam box with plywood just glued inside bolted only to the crossmembers of the trailer. My concerns are that the structure won't be fastened at the perimeter under the walls and may be a bit too flexible without those fasteners. Also since I have the wood extensions front and back structurally they would be stronger with the plywood connection. Unless there is a good way to fasten to the foam I probably wouldn't be comfortable with this design.


Any other ideas?

[ghcoe]

I attached my trailer at the trailer cross members in the middle and at the ends made a piece of wood that fit snuggly between the outside frame members. Then I bolted through that, it created a clamping effect of the frame. Seems to be working out just fine so far and I am harder on this trailer than most.

Installing Floor Spacers s.png (88.82 KiB) Viewed 2484 times

Floor Spacers s.png (35.89 KiB) Viewed 2484 times

[John61CT]

Have we decided that gripper makes for a better canvas glue than Titebond II? I thought I saw GPW saying that the T2 led to failure of the fabric on the foamstream but the gripper didn't.

That was wrt standing up to water over time, not necessarily short-term strength?

For this "we", that is a strong yes, I see no reason to use anything but Gripper. But of course I would be open to counter evidence.

WRT the floor I personally don't like plywood at all, but if I did use it, I would fully encapsulate quality marine-grade in a long-term waterproof sealant after all cuts, just before attaching to the chassis.

I would only add insulation after the fact, and above the plywood, maximizing the strength between the strong structural wood and the foamie box first, make sure I could get to plumbing / wiring etc.

I don't see foam as protecting the wood from underneath, more like v/v. And a continuous sheet of foam inside / above the wood ensures good insulation, zero thermal bridging wrt the metal chassis.

There is a "connection strength" to canvas + adhesive wrapping under the plywood floor edges, but I would encapsulate / waterproof the wood independently first. The canvas does not add much tensile strength to strong plywood, but I suppose might help with surface protection on the bottom if combined with a very strong paint.

[pchast]

HI,

I used Zip Wall as a base, coated side down, then foam, and light plywood. My base, ZipWall, was bolted to the trailer. I left a perimeter space to glue the side wall foam above the bolts.

If you connect as you pictured you need to support the bolted ply with inserted wood blocks to avoid crushing your foam. There are several ways to approach this.....

[Zzyzx]

WRT the floor I personally don't like plywood at all, but if I did use it, I would fully encapsulate quality marine-grade in a long-term waterproof sealant after all cuts, just before attaching to the chassis.

So what are good alternatives to plywood, for the deck? My understanding is that OSB is cheaper but not as stiff. I have yet to find a workable synthetic deck material that is remotely affordable.

[GPW]

Having recently completed a "Complete floor-ectomy” ourselves , this time we went with a board floor … pressure treated , “clear and dry “ , heavily primed ( gripper) . After many years of consideration , and seeing the board floor example in my All Steel Cargo trailer , which has lasted fine for over 20 years , and without any special floor treatment at all ( but it does have a “drip edge” ) … I do believe the boards are a better alternative than plywood or OSB … and they can be replaced individually should any problems arise in the future … We started off here knowing nothing , experimenting, testing , but we’ve learned as it’s gone along … some things just work better than others …

And one thing about a “ Complete floor-ectomy “ on a Foamie , is it's so Easy …

[Tyrtill]

When I sand the foam it gets kind of a fuzz. Is there a technique to prevent this or to get rid of it?

[GPW]

Use a finer sandpaper …

[Tyrtill]

Time for a real update.

obviously from my last post I'm making progress but I would like to take a step back and move through some things.

So I built the trailer frame extensions and treated them with the mix


I then measured and cut the foam and plywood for the floor. I did an insulated floor because I'm hoping to do some winter camping in this.



Using gripper for the foam but joints was a mistake I should have used construction adhesive or great stuff
I also wasted time cutting the plywood at an angle and titebond ii gluing them together before trying to attach it to the foam this was a failure as both plywood joints were cut poorly and broke when I tried to move them.





This is what I ended up with but while moving it to the trailer the nose section of the floor broke off. It worked out I just pushed them together and bolted them down.

At this point I got tired of the too small canopy and moved the project to my father's garage (which is also under construction).

Sanding, canvassing, and painting the underside of the floor using Glidden Gripper and Behr exterior paint.




After doing a glue test (Titebond II, Guerrilla Glue Construction Adhesive, Great Stuff Gaps and Cracks, Guerrilla Wood Glue) I decided I would be doing most of my work with great stuff and set to work on the walls.






I cut the nose sections with my new hot wire design using a protractor to set the angle on the aluminum angle iron before making my cuts.
The cuts were far from perfect but were close enough for great stuff!!



Bungee cord to keep tension on the hot wire to eliminate shakes from humans.

Decent quality angled cut.


Now that the walls are up I cut off the extra great stuff, did a quick sand then spackle, and began notching out the slots in the walls for my internal supports. My plan is to try to make most of the furniture in the camper out of foam as well.

Me using my very rough hot wire slotting tool.

Image is a little distorted but here I'm dry fitting the passenger wall of supports.

Shows the slot behind the taller "closet" support.



All sanded and ready to go on the outside



Today we put on the first full wall of canvas as well as attaching the floor canvas up the wall of the camper.

Here's an inside view of the canvas notched around the supports.

And the rough outside wall ready for canvassing tomorrow




I found a source of 3" foam that I'm going to use on the roof for extra strength and insulation.

I also found some awning windows for $10 on facebook marketplace for the upper section.



Hopefully I will post more often and smaller posts in the future.

[Tyrtill]

Got the front skinned yesterday. Probably should have kept the camper rectangular because skinning this part.....






The I had to cut a part one corner or I would have a 5" flap of fabric so I folded it dry to figure out where to cut and went for it. On a related note has anyone ever used the spackle to fix oopsies on the outside of the canvas?



Next step is the two small back walls but I need to finish my plans for the door and insert some blocking before I wrap those up.