Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby printer » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:08 am

Yes, I realize the foam is only there to keep the canvas in the desired position (as well as other things attached to it) and the important bond is to the floor. I thought people get away with 25% water as the foam does not absorb the water. I did find the 100% TB did hold the canvas a little better but that might also be because it stiffened up the canvas and I had to overcome some of the bending strength. Hard to say with my un-calibrated hand. I really wanted to try the paint as a bonding agent. It seemed to do as well as the watered TB. I have read a few different options to stick the canvas down and I had no idea how they compared to each other so I tried it to give myself a real life experience. I am still unsure what to think.

The scoring with a wire brush is something I did not think of. I thought of putting a wire wheel on a drill and go at it but thought it might be a little to extreme. Time for a few more tests I would think.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby TimC » Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:18 pm

printer wrote:The scoring with a wire brush is something I did not think of. I thought of putting a wire wheel on a drill and go at it but thought it might be a little to extreme. Time for a few more tests I would think.


I'd have to agree with extreme. It only takes a few minutes per side with a hand brush. And very little dust.

There are several right ways to stick canvas to foam. Just describing my method. Many folks use paint. Many folks prime the foam first and then apply canvas. It's really hard to screw it up if you take your time and make sure you get 100% coverage and then recoat with glue again. I applied a generous amount of glue to the foam, applied the canvas, (it was a hot day so I sprayed with a little water mist) then apply more glue/water mix, then when that is close to setting (a little tacky) I applied another coat of the same glue mix. One more coat of the same and all was golden. I did not apply a primer, many folks do. It is not wrong to skip that step. It is not wrong to do it.

Part of the reason for cutting the glue with water is speed and consistency of spreading with a roller or paint brush. The only straight glue I used on all my builds was wood to wood joints.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby twisted lines » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:01 pm

Clear Gloss Polyurethane Sticks really good to this.
So does foam, its a Big part of my #2
I read one part of specs no primer needed ? I know mine stuck without it.

I bought little squeezer's for bozzo's price :cry:
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby printer » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:18 pm

I went out to buy some Gorilla Glue in a larger bottle and got sticker shock on the price. Turned out the spray can was a better deal, we will see. Almost makes me want to join the foam with Great Stuff. I have some PL premium and the thought is to use it between the wall and the floor. I also thought of the ship lap edge next to the floor. I was going to cut it off but thought maybe fill it in with some 3/4" softwood and screw it to the floor.

Moving at a snails pace as I am trying to figure out the height and profile I will be using. I am already a couple of inches higher than I wanted to be as when I flipped the axle around on the springs the U-bolts lined up with the frame and I only had an inch of travel. So much for that bright idea. Not a complete loss of time, I needed to remove a leaf of the spring and I cleaned up all the rust and painted everything. Need to box in the wheel wells next. I am tying in some wood to them and the roof. Still trying to visualize how it all is going to come together.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby ghcoe » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:12 pm

Generally I cut TBII 50/50. I apply first to the foam then the canvas and then another coat over the previous coat on the foam. This usually builds a bit more glue on the foam surface and makes sure there is no dry spots. Then I fold the canvas over the glue and roll it out with a roller. I have done 4 trailers now and I have no issues with the 50/50 mix. I have however had some delamination due to other issues, such as applying glue near freezing and not enough floor support. Both issues were quickly cured with a syringe and some 50/50 TBII injected into the voids.

I believe that 50/50 mix soaks into the canvas much better protecting the canvas from potential rot if raw canvas is not filled properly.

I use full strength TBII on all my corner folds. This is where bonding is the most crucial.

But that is me. George.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby printer » Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:45 pm

Actually not far off from my thinking. I mixed in water to soak the canvas a little more and made the application on the foam more like paint rather than spreading on glue. The edges are where you want full strength in order to stop them from pealing. Once it starts it does not take as much to continue. I used to work in a mechanical test lab, I tested metals mostly but we had a composite division and I watched others in the lab do composite testing, one was a peal test. Oh, if I still worked there and I had access to the out of spec. materials. I was going to do a fiberglass covered trailer if I could have got hold of a guy I used to work with. At one time he asked me if I has some use for a roll of glass cloth he had. Maybe the next trailer.

On the bond being less critical in the center sections, I was thinking of that when pealing my test strips. It seemed like the paint I had was fine. It also has a mold retardant which I thought was a bonus.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby pchast » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:28 pm

I used my paint primer.... Just like wall paper application.
(Yes it was Gliden Gripper)

Rolled it onto the canvas and book folded it while I rolled
the primer on the scratched up and pierced foam. I had used
a wallpaper piercing roller and some 60 grit paper. There
were a couple small bubbles I injected more into.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby printer » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:59 am

I should have waited a little longer but I felt like a kid at Christmas and had to rip them off. OK I am convinced. I took a fine tooth saw and did a crosshatch pattern on the foam. The full strength Titebond held the best, the Titebond with water third behind the paint. That was a surprise. I would say I added 10%, I just made it a little less viscous. Even the diluted TB did better than full strength TB on the last bunch of strips. The TB pulled out of the groves and some of the paint remained in the groves. I am guessing that they did not have a chance to cure completely, even so it was not much behind the full strength TB. I think I will be using paint and then TB on the edges just in case. Or maybe not come to think of it. Will have to see how the paint seals the edges with topcoats. I can not see why it should not fair well.

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The picture looks like there was paint under the TB, that is just the flash reflecting off the foam. Good thing I mentioned it, I took a closer look at the test piece. The shiny parts under the TB strips art the shiny skin of the foam. The paint section has all of that skin removed when the strip was pealed off. Well that is interesting. Might as well mention the paint. It is Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3 primer.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby GPW » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:51 am

Of all the ways we all have used to attach canvas, I can’t recall in all these years any situation where the canvas peeled off the trailers going down the highway at 85 mph … :thinking: Can you ???
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby John61CT » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:23 am

I would think it would "fold up" collapse long before bits started flying off
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby KCStudly » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:58 am

I seem to recall one incident where the canvas billowed away from a front wall in the field, but it didn't separate at the edges or tear off. IIRC, the builder was able to glue it back down using the glue injection and/or hot iron method.

Other than that one, various reports of minor blistering and some shrinkage issues, PMF has a really solid track record.

Given all of the variables of surface prep, application techniques, and individual attention to detail, it is a testament to the validity of the concept.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby printer » Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:01 am

I couldn't see it pealing off. But since I have no experience with the method I like to give myself a little more fuzzy feeling about using it. It is the seams that are most important there. I am more concerned with the squirrels in the area deciding to make the thing a nice winter hideaway.
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby rjgimp » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:43 am

printer wrote:Hard to say with my un-calibrated hand.


Perhaps you need to send your hand out to have it properly calibrated...?

:lol:
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Re: Wall to floor sanity check and other odd questions.

Postby printer » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:43 am

I would but I don't trust it to come back.
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