Monstaliner questions!

Finishes, paints and coatings

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue May 01, 2018 12:19 pm

Andrew Herrick wrote:Tom,

I put three coats of polyurethane over bare wood. I did not use epoxy. I didn't want to deal with any adhesion issues - particuarly my first go-around - and I came to the conclusion that three coats of oil-based polyurethane + two-to-three coats of Monstaliner was sufficient to waterproof the wood. This camper was very small, with solid plywood walls, so I would gain no useable strength by fiberglassing.

With that said, I believe there may be room for improvement? Here is some options, all of which are currently untested to my knowledge:

1. Fiberglass the exterior with marine epoxy, and then apply sufficient polyurethane over the epoxy to guarantee chemical isolation between the epoxy and the Monstaliner.

2. It is possible that CPES, having different resin chemistry than most marine epoxies, would not have the same issue. At this point, I have no idea!

3. As recommended by Monstaliner, you could also use Chassis Saver as a primer for Monstaliner. Perhaps Chassis Saver can be painted onto epoxy/fiberglass?

4. Lastly, Monstaliner is made by Magnet Paints, which also sells a 2k industrial-grade epoxy primer. Again, it might be possible to coat fiberglass with this epoxy primer, and then apply Monstaliner directly over it, and or else coat the epoxy primer with Chassis Saver, followed by Monstaliner. I have to say ... this option sounds very expensive and time-consuming though!

Again, I haven't tried any of these ideas, and I have no idea if they will work. I'll probably bug Monstaliner with some more questions :)


Thank you Andrew.

While reading this thread, I was considering option 1. Shelly and I need to research CPES to see about 2. (Thanks for the link.) Last night, after reading your posts, Shelly pointed out Chassis Saver to me (she's been researching the Monstaliner web site), and option 3 may be the way to go. Bottom line for us, I guess, is that we need to call Monstaliner before deciding what type of resin to use on our fiberglass.

We'll certainly be interested in what more you learn from them. Thank you for doing this! :thumbsup:

Tom
Tom&Shelly
Palladium Donating Member
 
Posts: 142
Images: 86
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm
Location: New Mexico

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby KTM_Guy » Tue May 01, 2018 10:04 pm

Tom&Shelly wrote:
tony.latham wrote:
You won't have that problem with Baltic birch. 1/8" wants to bend. But it still needs to be waterproofed of course.

Image

:thumbsup:

T


Thank you Tony. We definitely plan to use Baltic birch for the ceiling and roof (and interior). (I'm thinking that's the same stuff they sell for umpteen dollars for less than a square foot in hobby stores, so if we can find it for ~$20 per 5 foot by 5 foot sheet it'll be a real bargain. My Dad built model airplanes and had pieces in his scrap pile. Remember it being easy to work and made all sorts of useful things out of it. Never tried to bend the 1/8" pieces though--the scrap was to small for that.)

I'm at the point in planning our project where, when I read what you wrote, I thought about not fiber glassing--it would save us weight, time, effort, and money. But, thinking about the strength it adds, especially at the wall/ceiling joints, how tough it is and how easy it is to repair, I'm thinking we'll probably still fiber glass. My philosophy is that I'm trying this for the first time, and by more or less copying the methods in Steve Fredrick's book, we shouldn't go too wrong.

Tom


I'm paying between $6.50 to $8.00 per sheet of 1/8" 60"X60" Baltic Birch. BB/BB grade.

Todd
User avatar
KTM_Guy
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 246
Images: 117
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 am
Location: Mesa, AZ near Usery

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby BretMaverick » Wed May 02, 2018 4:27 pm

Hey Todd just noticed you are in Mesa AZ (Chandler myself!) I would suggest getting your 1/8 at Woodworkers Source. It was definitely better than what I got at HomeDepot.
BretMaverick
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:10 pm
Location: Chandler AZ
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby KTM_Guy » Fri May 04, 2018 9:38 pm

BretMaverick wrote:Hey Todd just noticed you are in Mesa AZ (Chandler myself!) I would suggest getting your 1/8 at Woodworkers Source. It was definitely better than what I got at HomeDepot.


I've been to the one up on 17 and Bell. I hear there is one in Tempe. But there are better places to buy Baltic Birch and hardwoods. I'm paying 1/3 to 2/3's less per sheet than Woodworkers Source. Let me know if you need some names.

So far on my build I have only bought 1 1X3 from Home Depot. And it took some digging to find a good one.

Todd
User avatar
KTM_Guy
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 246
Images: 117
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 am
Location: Mesa, AZ near Usery
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby Tom&Shelly » Sat May 05, 2018 1:25 pm

Hesitate to post this here because it's a bit of thread drift (that I initiated-sorry), but since we are already on the subject: Shelly and I bought some of our plywood this morning. RAKs lumber in Edgewood won't order the baltic birch. We'll try Albuquerque Hardwood.

We also bought 3/4" ACX and 1/4" ACX. They didn't have 1/4" floor underlayment, so hopefully the ACX will do. We've noticed a few cracks on the A side, and, especially in the 3/4", a lot of unfilled knot holes on the C side. Guess I'll try and work around them.

Overall, not too impressed with that yard's lumber vs the big box stores. Although they do seem to know what they sell.

Tom
Tom&Shelly
Palladium Donating Member
 
Posts: 142
Images: 86
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:27 pm
Location: New Mexico
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby kayakdlk » Sat May 05, 2018 5:49 pm

I guess based on this thread my trailer which is going on its 5th year should of fallen apart by now.

I used 1/8 Baltic Birch, 7 oz fiberglass cloth with 3 coats epoxy (Raka 127/350 Non-blushing ) to waterproof the wood and then sanded it with 150 grit paper using a orbital sander to scuff it and then rolled on two thinned with MEK coats Monstaliner on top for a smoother texture. I have had absolutely no issue with it.

I power wash it after a trip and wax it one a year. No cracks, peeling, or dings from my Jeep tires flinging rocks at the front tongue box. You can check out by build journal for more info, my process, how much I used etc.

Dan
User avatar
kayakdlk
Platinum Donating Member
 
Posts: 307
Images: 392
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:02 pm
Location: Foothills of Colorado
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby clamlamp » Sat May 05, 2018 6:45 pm

KTM_Guy wrote:
Tom&Shelly wrote:
tony.latham wrote:
You won't have that problem with Baltic birch. 1/8" wants to bend. But it still needs to be waterproofed of course.

Image



T


Thank you Tony. We definitely plan to use Baltic birch for the ceiling and roof (and interior). (I'm thinking that's the same stuff they sell for umpteen dollars for less than a square foot in hobby stores, so if we can find it for ~$20 per 5 foot by 5 foot sheet it'll be a real bargain. My Dad built model airplanes and had pieces in his scrap pile. Remember it being easy to work and made all sorts of useful things out of it. Never tried to bend the 1/8" pieces though--the scrap was to small for that.)

I'm at the point in planning our project where, when I read what you wrote, I thought about not fiber glassing--it would save us weight, time, effort, and money. But, thinking about the strength it adds, especially at the wall/ceiling joints, how tough it is and how easy it is to repair, I'm thinking we'll probably still fiber glass. My philosophy is that I'm trying this for the first time, and by more or less copying the methods in Steve Fredrick's book, we shouldn't go too wrong.

Tom


I'm paying between $6.50 to $8.00 per sheet of 1/8" 60"X60" Baltic Birch. BB/BB grade.

Todd
That's an amazing price!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
User avatar
clamlamp
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:54 pm
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby tony.latham » Sat May 05, 2018 6:56 pm

kayakdlk wrote:I guess based on this thread my trailer which is going on its 5th year should of fallen apart by now.

I used 1/8 Baltic Birch, 7 oz fiberglass cloth with 3 coats epoxy (Raka 127/350 Non-blushing ) to waterproof the wood and then sanded it with 150 grit paper using a orbital sander to scuff it and then rolled on two thinned with MEK coats Monstaliner on top for a smoother texture. I have had absolutely no issue with it.

I power wash it after a trip and wax it one a year. No cracks, peeling, or dings from my Jeep tires flinging rocks at the front tongue box. You can check out by build journal for more info, my process, how much I used etc.

Dan


:thumbsup:

T
Image
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 2753
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby BretMaverick » Sat May 05, 2018 11:54 pm

kayakdlk wrote:I guess based on this thread my trailer which is going on its 5th year should of fallen apart by now.


Personally I'm way too much of a layman to know :D I'm glad your Monstaliner is holding up so well! My order is currently in the mail. I'm looking through your build journal now to see if I can get any ideas!
BretMaverick
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:10 pm
Location: Chandler AZ
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby BretMaverick » Sun May 06, 2018 7:30 pm

Just finished putting 3 coats of polyurethane on, now just waiting for the Monstaliner to show up
Image
BretMaverick
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:10 pm
Location: Chandler AZ
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby KTM_Guy » Sun May 06, 2018 10:33 pm

BretMaverick wrote:Just finished putting 3 coats of polyurethane on, now just waiting for the Monstaliner to show up
Image


Are you putting anything over your seams and corners like fiberglass tape set in epoxy? Poly dose nothing for strength like epoxy or fiberglass does. I would be concerned with nothing to reinforce the corners and seams, cracks may start and transfer to the bedliner.

Todd
User avatar
KTM_Guy
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 246
Images: 117
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 am
Location: Mesa, AZ near Usery
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby BretMaverick » Sun May 06, 2018 11:31 pm

Are you putting anything over your seams and corners like fiberglass tape set in epoxy? Poly dose nothing for strength like epoxy or fiberglass does. I would be concerned with nothing to reinforce the corners and seams, cracks may start and transfer to the bedliner. [/quote]

No I am not, but you are making me think that I should! I have epoxy as we used it in the galley, still have a ton left. I know nothing about fiberglass tape. As I have mentioned, I'm very much the laymen here. The instructions I have also don't mention anything about strengthening the seems. Is this something I should be grabbing at the home depot, just soak it in the Epoxy and apply?
BretMaverick
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:10 pm
Location: Chandler AZ
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby tony.latham » Mon May 07, 2018 9:53 am

...fiberglass tape... Is this something I should be grabbing at the home depot, just soak it in the Epoxy and apply?


Here's a great thread on bias cut fiberglass tape.

http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=34887&p=633840

If you decide it's needed, I would suggest you go with this method.

Bias cut tape (or biaxial) is much easier to lay over an edge vs. normal fiberglass tapes. But the edge of your 'drop should be relieved with a round-over bit anyway. Otherwise, the tape will want to lift off the edge.

And no... you won't find it at Home Depot.

T
Image
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 2753
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby BretMaverick » Mon May 07, 2018 10:37 pm

After reading that post and then a few others I think I like the fiberglass cloth methods over the tape. Gonna do more research or possibly poke at someone who has already done the cloth...
BretMaverick
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:10 pm
Location: Chandler AZ
Top

Re: Monstaliner questions!

Postby Andrew Herrick » Wed May 09, 2018 1:04 am

I don't know how your teardrop is constructed, Bret, but fiberglassing corners isn't necessary or even useful with all construction methods. IMHO, designing a teardrop "box" to have torsional rigidity almost eliminates the need for any corner reinforcement. And a poorly constructed box (with regards to torsion) will not necessarily be made a great deal stronger with fiberglassed corners. Anyhow, teardrops rarely have this problem, especially because most teardrops have a structural bulkhead, and that makes the whole thing pretty much rigid and square. Again, it does depend somewhat on your construction method.

For another thing, Monstaliner is pretty flexible. Mine seems to have cured all the way and still has excellent flexibility. I can't imagine the structure will twist enough to cause cracking. It's too elastic. And it's a urethane-, not an epoxy-based, coating, so it should retain good flexibility its whole life.
A few of my builds:

ImageImageImageImage


SEE MORE AT: boondockcampers.com
User avatar
Andrew Herrick
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 271
Images: 15
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: Cedar City, Utah
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Skinning secrets

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest