All Terrain Tires

All about towing and tow vehicles

Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby working on it » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:25 pm

Tirerack.com wrote:Trailer Tires vs. Passenger Vehicle Tires
There are differences in the driving requirements between the tires on your trailer and those on the car or light truck you use to tow it. Therefore, there are distinct differences between the way trailer tires and tow vehicle tires are engineered.

Your tow vehicle is a leader, which means traction is a key focus in the design of its tires. Traction allows your tow vehicle to accelerate down the road, turn around the corner and brake to a stop. Another important consideration is tow vehicle tires are designed for ride comfort, which is achieved in part by allowing their sidewalls to flex.

Your trailer is a follower, which often makes tire sidewall flexing a negative. Sidewall flexing on trailers, especially those with a high center of gravity (enclosed/travel trailers) or that carry heavy loads, is a primary cause of trailer sway. Typical passenger radial tires with flexible sidewalls can accentuate trailer sway problems. The stiffer sidewalls and higher operating pressures common with Special Trailer (ST) designated tires help reduce trailer sway.

"Trailers will be more stable and pull better on tires designed specifically for trailer use. Since Special Trailer (ST) tires are constructed with heavier duty materials, they are tougher than typical passenger vehicle tires."

Also consider that Special Trailer (ST), as well as Light Truck (LT) tires are fully rated for trailer applications. This means ST- and LT-sized tires can carry the full weight rating branded on the sidewalls when used on a trailer.

However when P-metric or Euro-metric tires are used on a trailer, the load capacity branded on the sidewalls must be reduced by 9%. This means P-metric or Euro-metric tires with a maximum branded load rating of 1,874 lbs. for use on a car is only rated to carry 1,705 lbs. when used on a trailer.

Comparing the load capacities of a pair of tires of the same dimensions fitted to a single axle trailer, ST225/75R15 Load Range C-sized tires inflated to their maximum of 50 psi provide 4,300 lbs. of load capacity, where P225/75R15 Standard Load-sized tires inflated to their maximum of 35 psi would be limited to 3,410 lbs. of load capacity, a total reduction of 890 pounds.

Trailers will be more stable and pull better on tires designed specifically for trailer use. Since Special Trailer (ST) tires are constructed with heavier duty materials, they are tougher than typical passenger vehicle tires. This is a plus because trailer suspension systems are generally stiffer and less sophisticated than automotive suspension systems.
JaggedEdges wrote:Load rating, load rating, load rating, auto tires only go on auto rims, trailer tires only go on trailer rims, run (whatever) tires on trailer at max sidewall cold pressure always, it runs coolest and supports the most.

Get a tire rated 20% over half the axle load rating at least, leaves room for Murphy,

Do not expect an auto tire rated high enough load to actually fit in the wheel well of your factory trailer. ST tires mostly have much higher load ratings for their size than P tires and as they get larger, LT tires even. Modifications to accommodate your preferred tire are on you.

Rims, auto tires, use auto rims, trailers often want a negative offset though, if a rim suitable to swap on your vehicle is high positive, then you may need to use spacers on the trailer, getting this right, modifying the hub, ensuring the bearing can take the load if the centerline of the combo is off, all on you.
I've always used ST trailer tires on my trailers, not just putting old P235-75 R15 truck or SUV take-offs on my trailers, like many of my friends did with theirs. When I look at most lawn service trailers around here, most have balding tires of that size on them. Just my observation! I also note, that in the car community I came from, most carhauling trailers used automotive wheels, too, some aluminum and some with varying amounts of offset. My own carhauler had slightly offset wheels that matched my '69 Chevy 1500 (I bought 10 used 6-lug wheels, for truck & trailer to match). No problems were caused by the small offset, no bearing wear or tire scrub on either truck nor trailer. I can't say the same for some combinations I've seen, though. I will probably replace the Chevy wheels on my carhauler trailer, with proper trailer tires and wheels, probably already mounted as a set, but not now. I'm replacing the old ST tires on my TTT , weighing under a ton, with LT tires on my trailer-specific wheels. According to Tirerack.com, I can do so. I have no concerns about the extra flex of the thinner sidewalls, since I intend to inflate them to recommended pressure (and reduce it if I need to, but only a bit, if there is no noticeable sway). I've run tire size comparisons online (and also been assured by a fellow member of Exploration Portal who made the exact tire change I'm doing) that the tire will fit , and carry the load of my trailer.
new vs old tires v.2.GIF
new vs old tires v.2.GIF (157.4 KiB) Viewed 752 times
The ST tires had a load rating of 1760 lbs per tire- the LT tires have a load rating of 1520 lbs per tire; either tire is sufficient for my 1700 lb trailer. I don't feel the 1/2" tread depth (of the LT tire) will add to squirm or sway of the trailer; the flatter tread will grab the road better, and should give better traction than the thinner, shallower tread of even new ST tires. I've towed mainly tandem axle trailers, loaded weight from 2.5 tons to 5 tons...they are a different animal than the smaller single-axle trailer, and can followa slightly more lenient tire rule (within reason). Choose wisely!
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby working on it » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:30 pm

Finally got the AT2s on the trailer. They are heavier, and with noticeably more tread depth and width, though the section width is almost the same. The squared-off shoulder profile of the all-terrain tires does stick out an 1.5" from under the fenders. I will have to get extending fender flares to cover. Though I see lots of uncovered tires in Texas, and I could probably let it be, I will be going out of state, and also, I don't want to spray other vehicles. I might even use mud-flaps, too. I still have lots off fender clearance, similar to Tony Latham's trailer photo, so I'll be OK with mine.
  • new tires & fender clearance.png
    new tires & fender clearance.png (417.6 KiB) Viewed 704 times
  • Latham trailer fender clearance.jpg
    Latham trailer fender clearance.jpg (76.56 KiB) Viewed 704 times
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: All Terrain Tires/ tire coverage modification needed

Postby working on it » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:41 pm

working on it wrote:Finally got the AT2s on the trailer. They are heavier, and with noticeably more tread depth and width, though the section width is almost the same. The squared-off shoulder profile of the all-terrain tires does stick out an 1.5" from under the fenders. I will have to get extending fender flares to cover. Though I see lots of uncovered tires in Texas, and I could probably let it be, I will be going out of state, and also, I don't want to spray other vehicles. I might even use mud-flaps, too. I still have lots off fender clearance....
  • I said I could probably get by without complete fender over tire coverage in Texas, but I just can't do it, myself. I've been trying to find the ideal fender flare for my rounded-lip fenders, but of the two candidates, both by Pacer Performance, I just couldn't see either working out 100%. One goes under the lip, but being rounded, the fender lip would tend to angle the flare downwards; the other, meant to attach to a vertical surface, would also not completely fit the rounded fender lip. I did a lot of research, and couldn't decide. Note: the fender is so solidly mounted, that I didn't want to do it again, so removal of the fender, and modification or reshaping the rounded lip, were not to be considered.
  • So, I tried an old trick, using a re-purposed rubber strip or conveyor belting fragment to cover the tires. But, this time, I used Vigoro lawn edging, since I needed something with angles or rounded surfaces I could experiment with, to find the best fit of the rounded lip. I decided to go with the natural curve of the rolled edging (wrinkled badly when trying to make it go the other way). The stiff oval outer edge almost fit inside the fender lip radius perfectly (with fingertip pressure applied), so I hand-fitted the edging into the fender lip, worked with continuous pressure all around the fender, to get the exact length I needed to cut to length. When that was done, I looked down to see the tire coverage I wanted, and marked it with a soapstone pencil.
  • Back at my truck tailgate (I use it for projects, since my garage is full: trailer & parts in one bay, my Chevelle dragcar, parts, and assorted equipment in a second bay, furniture from two rooms being re-built in the third bay; I haven't been able to use my workbenches for three years), I saw a thin line marked on the edging that was exactly where I marked it. That made cutting the edging much easier; I followed the line with kitchen shears. I tried to get the trimmed Vigoro to stay in the fender groove, so I could take pictures and decide if it was OK enough to use on my rough-hewn trailer, but with tape and clamps in various positions, it would not stay where I put it. So, not wanting to do this, I went ahead, marked equally-spaced spots along the fender edge, and started to drill pilot holes (at a consistent angle), to finish with the self-drilling Tek screws. After having three bits snap, when the rounded fender edge caused them to slip out of the indentations I provided, I tried to make the holes of uniform angle and placement, but they ended up-not so much.
  • Anyway, the 3/4" long Teks (with a washer underneath) were just long enough to grab the plastic oval edge under the lip. It would never hold the edging in place on the road, but it was good enough for photos. If I decide to keep it, I'll taper the leading edge, attach 12-inch wide mud-flaps at the rear (bolted to both fender and plastic flare, for continuity), and re-attach all with #10-32 (probably 3/4" long, again) button-head cap screws (with washers on only the underside of the plastic), and nylocks to secure. I don't think it looks too out of place with my handyman's approach to trailering; others, with a finer aesthetic taste may think them "ghetto", but at my age, I don't care...just if it works.
  • I'll wait a week, or so, see if I still think it's OK, then either remove it, or duplicate it on the other side (with hardware changes). But, after drilling the holes in the fender, I'm committed. I could probably use the same holes with the Flexy Flares, so that is now a back-up plan.
  • before & after flare install.png
    before & after flare install.png (422.6 KiB) Viewed 627 times
  • flexy flares (sidemount) comparison.jpg
    flexy flares (sidemount) comparison.jpg (35.27 KiB) Viewed 614 times
    the only alternatives I could find
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: AT tires were too wide-fender extenders & mudflaps added

Postby working on it » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:36 am

  • Well, I only waited four days, and bought some #10-32 x 1" capscrews. black oxide flatwashers, and some #10-32 nylocks. I removed the Tek screws from the fender, one at a time, drilled the fender and lawn edging with a 3/16" bit (using the same holes that the TEKs had made, this time making sure the angle was more consistent). Previously, the Teks were only partially penetrating the hard oval edge of the Vigoro, so they would've worked loose at highway speeds. I drilled all the way thru the oval edge, so I could put a washer and nylock to ensure them staying put. I had trouble getting the capscrew to go all the way thru enough to get the washer/nylock onto the end, to tighten. When I succeeded, using a lot of force to coerce the oval to fit into the curved fender edge, and tightened the screws, then the Vigoro wrinkled up badly. Looks like ruffles on a petticoat (I'm old, I remember girls wearing them). I went ahead, doing the same procedure on the other fender. Same result.
  • I don't know if releasing some tension from the tight fasteners would also remove the wrinkles from the edging (I ordered some 1.25" long capscrews to use, perhaps the extra length will make a difference. If that doesn't work, I'll try using a hair-dryer to attempt reshaping them.I tried both of the above methods to smooth out the wrinkles (or ruffles? another term for disorder, it describes it better), and neither worked. Releasing tension by backing off on the bolts did nothing- the ruffles were already set; using a heat gun (first on a scrap test piece) just deepens the color, and actually emphasized/increased the waviness. I left them alone after that.
  • So, I went on to phase two: I took some very stiff 12" wide conveyor belt material (the same stuff I used for my hatch gap covering), and cut off two 12"x12" pieces, then used galvanized 1"x12"x1/8" thick bar stock to clamp them on a brace at the rear of each fender, before I drilled and bolted them there. I broke two more bits, hitting inner welds, and stripped the bolt holes on three of six bolt holes, so some Tek screws were used to supply a more secure attachment to the fender brace on both sides. I'll use bigger/better hardware later on, but I'm rushing to complete several trailer upgrades in a month's time. The mud flaps are at a 45 degree swept back angle, taking over where the fender flares leave off, to divert tire ejecta. Finished after dark, an didn't have my phone/camera with me to snap photos with, but I'll add them tomorrow. I like to re-purpose material for other uses. Half-just being cheap, and half-just being different. That's always been the way I do things. I re-purposed conveyor belting as mudflaps, yesterday, just as I had used it before as a cover over the gap between my trailer body and opened rear hatch (I had snatched it from the scrap barrel at work, just with that use in mind).
  • I still wasn't satisfied with the wrinkled, ruffled look of the re-purposed lawn edging I used for fender flares, and saw no way to avoid removing them and finding another solution. I liked the solid way I got them to fit, and I'm sure they would've worked well, but they just bothered me. So, after contemplating using rubber tire tubes to cover and smooth-out the wrinkles, I suddenly had an epiphany, to use the same conveyor material to do the job.
  • I still had my drill ready with the correct bit, and the impact still had the right bit in it, so I cut 2" wide strips of material (with my cut-off wheel), and used the last of my #10-32 x 1" capscrews, washers, and nylocks I had bought for the fender flare job, and bolted the conveyor belt to the lawn edging.
  • Now, the edging acts as a supporting structure, and the belting presents a horizontal, smoother appearance, around the fender curve. You can still see the wrinkled edging, if you view it on edge, but that's just part of the design (I'll claim, haha). The conveyor belting matches my grey trailer color scheme, now used for three functions. Yup, just as I planned all along. As a old dragracer, I learned a long time ago that if you change just one thing on your racecar, then very often, you'll have to change three or four other things...I find that this is true for trailer building/modification, as well. It may just be me....
  • 147398 TEK screws to be replaced with bolts
  • 147399 flares wrinkled up when tightly secured
  • 147400 capscrews look good, wrinkled fender flares do not
  • 147401 added conveyor belt mudflaps
  • 147402 then added matching conveyor belt material to cover the wrinkles!
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby TallyTear » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:13 pm

JaggedEdges wrote:
Camp4Life wrote: Ask someone who tows a trailer with normal passenger tires on it if they had a tire blow, and which side it was on, and I'll bet you it was on the same side as the exhaust from their vehicle.


All vehicles I've had, have had exhaust exit on the passenger side. That's the side that gets all the protruding drain covers, most of the pot holes and curb rubs and has most weight on it on a cambered road... so I'm kinda doubtful it's all on the exhaust.


Thank you!


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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby TallyTear » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:37 am

JaggedEdges wrote:I figure the blanket statements against it are for the herd. It can be done, but numerous things have to be right.

Firstly, in the herd mind, a 205/70 ST 14" and a 205/70R14 are identical, nothing to pick between them, apart from one says ST on it.... well the trailer one maybe has a 2000lb or so load rating and the car version maybe 1400lb. Also they don't see that trailer rims and auto rims have different bead profiles, auto tires fall off trailer rims.

Secondly in the herd mind. "If you blow it up to maximum sidewall it will blow up." No, that is the only point it attains it's maximum load rating. A tire HAS TO BE at sidewall to achieve it's max speed and load ratings, otherwise it's grinding sidewall heating up too much. Numbers on your car door pillar are as much about ride and road noise as being the maximum inflation pressure, they are a hard minimum though, look in the manual some cars will tell you, if driving at high speed or with heavy loads for long periods, inflate tires to max sidewall pressure.

Thirdly in the herd mind. Hot pressure = cold pressure, "it's all pressure, if I check at a brief stop and my pressure is 5psi up, I should let it out." I don't care if it's 50 PSI over cold, leave it, it's designed in.

These people need to be told, if it's a trailer put the correct trailer tire on it.


However,,,.

Load rating, load rating, load rating, auto tires only go on auto rims, trailer tires only go on trailer rims, run (whatever) tires on trailer at max sidewall cold pressure always, it runs coolest and supports the most.

Get a tire rated 20% over half the axle load rating at least, leaves room for Murphy,

Do not expect an auto tire rated high enough load to actually fit in the wheel well of your factory trailer. ST tires mostly have much higher load ratings for their size than P tires and as they get larger, LT tires even. Modifications to accommodate your preferred tire are on you.

Rims, auto tires, use auto rims, trailers often want a negative offset though, if a rim suitable to swap on your vehicle is high positive, then you may need to use spacers on the trailer, getting this right, modifying the hub, ensuring the bearing can take the load if the centerline of the combo is off, all on you.

However, the above is all fairly simple to achieve by offroaders who'll be doing an axle flip or lift on a trailer ensuring plenty of room that large tires go under it and are typically using trailers limited in weight and size. Then the TV matching LT tires in use often have decently high load ratings that you don't even have to notice to "get away with it."

Should you therefore decide to do this with your econobox Toyota and put matching tires on your teardrop you are likely to hit the following problems... i) Load rating, you've probably got ~800lb rated tires on your econobox, this limits you to a total weight, wet and loaded (GVWR) of 1300lb after you leave 20% margin (For blowouts etc, not for when you accidentally want to carry 20% more.) So if you built heavy, forget it. Secondly if your base trailer came with the little 8" rims, or 10" even, you've probably built everything in around them, there may not be room to stick a 24" diameter tire where a 20" or less diameter tire was meant to go, test clearance at full suspension articulation, buy new fenders, rehack your trailer body, whatever you have to do. Thirdly, rim offset, FWD positive, trailers likely negative. might not work, may require spacers, or different hubs if you've got 5x100 and trailer has 4x100.


But yeah, always use ST tires on trailers.

Wow....


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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby Socal Tom » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:22 am

TallyTear wrote:
JaggedEdges wrote:I figure the blanket statements against it are for the herd. It can be done, but numerous things have to be right.

Firstly, in the herd mind, a 205/70 ST 14" and a 205/70R14 are identical, nothing to pick between them, apart from one says ST on it.... well the trailer one maybe has a 2000lb or so load rating and the car version maybe 1400lb. Also they don't see that trailer rims and auto rims have different bead profiles, auto tires fall off trailer rims.

Secondly in the herd mind. "If you blow it up to maximum sidewall it will blow up." No, that is the only point it attains it's maximum load rating. A tire HAS TO BE at sidewall to achieve it's max speed and load ratings, otherwise it's grinding sidewall heating up too much. Numbers on your car door pillar are as much about ride and road noise as being the maximum inflation pressure, they are a hard minimum though, look in the manual some cars will tell you, if driving at high speed or with heavy loads for long periods, inflate tires to max sidewall pressure.

Thirdly in the herd mind. Hot pressure = cold pressure, "it's all pressure, if I check at a brief stop and my pressure is 5psi up, I should let it out." I don't care if it's 50 PSI over cold, leave it, it's designed in.

These people need to be told, if it's a trailer put the correct trailer tire on it.


However,,,.

Load rating, load rating, load rating, auto tires only go on auto rims, trailer tires only go on trailer rims, run (whatever) tires on trailer at max sidewall cold pressure always, it runs coolest and supports the most.

Get a tire rated 20% over half the axle load rating at least, leaves room for Murphy,

Do not expect an auto tire rated high enough load to actually fit in the wheel well of your factory trailer. ST tires mostly have much higher load ratings for their size than P tires and as they get larger, LT tires even. Modifications to accommodate your preferred tire are on you.

Rims, auto tires, use auto rims, trailers often want a negative offset though, if a rim suitable to swap on your vehicle is high positive, then you may need to use spacers on the trailer, getting this right, modifying the hub, ensuring the bearing can take the load if the centerline of the combo is off, all on you.

However, the above is all fairly simple to achieve by offroaders who'll be doing an axle flip or lift on a trailer ensuring plenty of room that large tires go under it and are typically using trailers limited in weight and size. Then the TV matching LT tires in use often have decently high load ratings that you don't even have to notice to "get away with it."

Should you therefore decide to do this with your econobox Toyota and put matching tires on your teardrop you are likely to hit the following problems... i) Load rating, you've probably got ~800lb rated tires on your econobox, this limits you to a total weight, wet and loaded (GVWR) of 1300lb after you leave 20% margin (For blowouts etc, not for when you accidentally want to carry 20% more.) So if you built heavy, forget it. Secondly if your base trailer came with the little 8" rims, or 10" even, you've probably built everything in around them, there may not be room to stick a 24" diameter tire where a 20" or less diameter tire was meant to go, test clearance at full suspension articulation, buy new fenders, rehack your trailer body, whatever you have to do. Thirdly, rim offset, FWD positive, trailers likely negative. might not work, may require spacers, or different hubs if you've got 5x100 and trailer has 4x100.


But yeah, always use ST tires on trailers.

Wow....


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wow is right,
First, tires should be filled to the proper pressure, not the max pressure on the side. A tire with too much air for the weight will wear out in the middle. That's why we have the recommended pressure on the door and why mfg publish weight charts showing "proper" inflation pressure.
As far as side wall stiffness, a TD doesn't weigh enough to even think about that. A 10K travel trailer, maybe....
I'll trust a name brand LT tire over a Chinese, no name ST tire any day...
Tom


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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby TallyTear » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:33 am

Socal Tom wrote:
TallyTear wrote:
JaggedEdges wrote:I figure the blanket statements against it are for the herd. It can be done, but numerous things have to be right.

Firstly, in the herd mind, a 205/70 ST 14" and a 205/70R14 are identical, nothing to pick between them, apart from one says ST on it.... well the trailer one maybe has a 2000lb or so load rating and the car version maybe 1400lb. Also they don't see that trailer rims and auto rims have different bead profiles, auto tires fall off trailer rims.

Secondly in the herd mind. "If you blow it up to maximum sidewall it will blow up." No, that is the only point it attains it's maximum load rating. A tire HAS TO BE at sidewall to achieve it's max speed and load ratings, otherwise it's grinding sidewall heating up too much. Numbers on your car door pillar are as much about ride and road noise as being the maximum inflation pressure, they are a hard minimum though, look in the manual some cars will tell you, if driving at high speed or with heavy loads for long periods, inflate tires to max sidewall pressure.

Thirdly in the herd mind. Hot pressure = cold pressure, "it's all pressure, if I check at a brief stop and my pressure is 5psi up, I should let it out." I don't care if it's 50 PSI over cold, leave it, it's designed in.

These people need to be told, if it's a trailer put the correct trailer tire on it.


However,,,.

Load rating, load rating, load rating, auto tires only go on auto rims, trailer tires only go on trailer rims, run (whatever) tires on trailer at max sidewall cold pressure always, it runs coolest and supports the most.

Get a tire rated 20% over half the axle load rating at least, leaves room for Murphy,

Do not expect an auto tire rated high enough load to actually fit in the wheel well of your factory trailer. ST tires mostly have much higher load ratings for their size than P tires and as they get larger, LT tires even. Modifications to accommodate your preferred tire are on you.

Rims, auto tires, use auto rims, trailers often want a negative offset though, if a rim suitable to swap on your vehicle is high positive, then you may need to use spacers on the trailer, getting this right, modifying the hub, ensuring the bearing can take the load if the centerline of the combo is off, all on you.

However, the above is all fairly simple to achieve by offroaders who'll be doing an axle flip or lift on a trailer ensuring plenty of room that large tires go under it and are typically using trailers limited in weight and size. Then the TV matching LT tires in use often have decently high load ratings that you don't even have to notice to "get away with it."

Should you therefore decide to do this with your econobox Toyota and put matching tires on your teardrop you are likely to hit the following problems... i) Load rating, you've probably got ~800lb rated tires on your econobox, this limits you to a total weight, wet and loaded (GVWR) of 1300lb after you leave 20% margin (For blowouts etc, not for when you accidentally want to carry 20% more.) So if you built heavy, forget it. Secondly if your base trailer came with the little 8" rims, or 10" even, you've probably built everything in around them, there may not be room to stick a 24" diameter tire where a 20" or less diameter tire was meant to go, test clearance at full suspension articulation, buy new fenders, rehack your trailer body, whatever you have to do. Thirdly, rim offset, FWD positive, trailers likely negative. might not work, may require spacers, or different hubs if you've got 5x100 and trailer has 4x100.


But yeah, always use ST tires on trailers.

Wow....


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wow is right,
First, tires should be filled to the proper pressure, not the max pressure on the side. A tire with too much air for the weight will wear out in the middle. That's why we have the recommended pressure on the door and why mfg publish weight charts showing "proper" inflation pressure.
As far as side wall stiffness, a TD doesn't weigh enough to even think about that. A 10K travel trailer, maybe....
I'll trust a name brand LT tire over a Chinese, no name ST tire any day...
Tom


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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby working on it » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:19 am

Socal Tom wrote:...As far as side wall stiffness, a TD doesn't weigh enough to even think about that. A 10K travel trailer, maybe....
I'll trust a name brand LT tire over a Chinese, no name ST tire any day...
Tom
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  • Sidewall stiffness is a concern for me, anyway, because I drive fast and corner fast. I've noticed sidewall flex in ST tires that were under-inflated, and in my truck's LT tires, as well. Once, I went to a Discount Tire near work, to get my tires rotated, while I went to lunch (a rare treat at work). When I retrieved the truck, I saw that they did rotate the tires (I marked them), and went back to work. After work, driving home, I made a lane change on a long, fast, curve, and the truck went wonky on me. I pulled over and looked at the tires, and checked the pressure on each. The front tires had 75 psi, and the rear had 45 psi. They had rotated front to back, not changing the tire pressure (I run 45 in front and 75 rear, because I'm always carrying heavy loads at any time - door sticker recommends 50 front , 80 rear).
  • What happened while driving was that the rear tires weren't firm enough to handle the weight shift, the sidewalls flexed when I wasn't prepared for it. I took my inflator out, inflated the rear tires to normal, and the fronts were deflated to normal, and I went back to the long curve to repeat the maneuver. Drove perfectly this time. My TTT is on the heavy end of the TD weight scale, and I always had the recommended tire pressure in the bias-ply ST tires, to maintain stiff sidewalls with less heat buil-up. Now, with LT (radial) tires on it, I'll start with the recommended tire pressure, and reduce it if I see any uneven wear, or excess bounce. The LT tires can accommodate lower pressure than the bias-ply ST's, having more flexible sidewalls.
  • As to trusting Chinese tires, I'm sure some are better than others, but who can tell which ones? I've read many horror stories of Goodyear Marathons, after they started being made in China, for instance. That's exactly why I chose LT tires over ST tires this time...I couldn't find any ST tires with the tread type I wanted, nor the guarantee of being made as well as the Carlisle and Denman ST tires I trusted for many years (both made in the USA). I've not had much luck with the Chinese radial ST tires (the bias-ply last longer).
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby working on it » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:02 am

  • I have a little more information to add to the thread. While favoring name-brand LT tires over no-name or Chinese-made ST tires for my trailer, I have to mention the differences in two LT tire types: LT-metric (example: LT245/75R16 - my truck tire) and flotation (example: 27/8.50R14LT- my trailer tire). I needed 14 inch tires for my trailer, and the only ones available I could find, were both the flotation type. I chose the one that had the more all-terrain type tread over the more mud-bogger style, for the mostly highway use it will have.
  • I acknowledged that the ST tires, as a rule, have stiffer sidewalls than LT tires, I failed to note that the LT-metrics have stiffer sidewalls than the LT-flotations, while the flotations are wider and have more heat-generating mass than the metrics. Both factors mitigate the advantages I saw in getting LT tires to replace my aged ST tires, on the highway, but the added tread depth, flotation on loose surfaces, and extra beefing around the bead all add in favor for liited off-road. I find it to be a workable solution that many people have tested before me.
  • differences between LT-metric and LT-flotation tires-Fourwheeler network.PNG
    differences between LT-metric and LT-flotation tires-Fourwheeler network.PNG (58.73 KiB) Viewed 460 times
  • The complete article can be found here:http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheels-tires/1407-understanding-tire-load-ratings/
  • I was looking into adjusting the tire pressure downward from the max. inflation stamped on the tire (50 psi), following threads here on TnTTT and on Exploration Portal, among other forums, and found a chart from Toyo Tires https://toyotires-1524598101.netdna-ssl.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf that I was considering following. It takes into account the construction differences in the LT tires (and many other types) and shows recommended pressures for each. It's up to the user to determine how closely to follow the recommendations (I always choose higher pressures, due to my aggressive driving style). here's a snip of the LT chart, for my tire size:
  • tire inflation vs loading from Toyo tires.PNG
    tire inflation vs loading from Toyo tires.PNG (40.77 KiB) Viewed 460 times
  • Since my 1700-1800 lb trailer(say 1850, to be safe, it's an estimate) has a load of 925 lbs per tire, I see that I could deflate down from 50 psi to 25 psi. !!!! I really have doubts about this on the highway, slinging my trailer around, dodging potholes and 18-wheelers. I would prefer, first time out on a road trip with these new tires, to start at the max pressure (cold) of 50 psi, and use my experience to judge how close to the 25 psi that I would dare go. If I was off-roading even, I probably wouldn't go to 25 psi, always preferring 20% more than minimum, when the tires are mounted on narrow wheels (mine are 6", making the sidewalls have more flex than a wider rim). It's a work in progress, but at least I have more info to base future decisions on.
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby Socal Tom » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:48 am

working on it wrote:
  • I have a little more information to add to the thread. While favoring name-brand LT tires over no-name or Chinese-made ST tires for my trailer, I have to mention the differences in two LT tire types: LT-metric (example: LT245/75R16 - my truck tire) and flotation (example: 27/8.50R14LT- my trailer tire). I needed 14 inch tires for my trailer, and the only ones available I could find, were both the flotation type. I chose the one that had the more all-terrain type tread over the more mud-bogger style, for the mostly highway use it will have.
  • I acknowledged that the ST tires, as a rule, have stiffer sidewalls than LT tires, I failed to note that the LT-metrics have stiffer sidewalls than the LT-flotations, while the flotations are wider and have more heat-generating mass than the metrics. Both factors mitigate the advantages I saw in getting LT tires to replace my aged ST tires, on the highway, but the added tread depth, flotation on loose surfaces, and extra beefing around the bead all add in favor for liited off-road. I find it to be a workable solution that many people have tested before me.
  • The attachment differences between LT-metric and LT-flotation tires-Fourwheeler network.PNG is no longer available
  • The complete article can be found here:http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/wheels-tires/1407-understanding-tire-load-ratings/
  • I was looking into adjusting the tire pressure downward from the max. inflation stamped on the tire (50 psi), following threads here on TnTTT and on Exploration Portal, among other forums, and found a chart from Toyo Tires https://toyotires-1524598101.netdna-ssl.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf that I was considering following. It takes into account the construction differences in the LT tires (and many other types) and shows recommended pressures for each. It's up to the user to determine how closely to follow the recommendations (I always choose higher pressures, due to my aggressive driving style). here's a snip of the LT chart, for my tire size:
  • The attachment tire inflation vs loading from Toyo tires.PNG is no longer available
  • Since my 1700-1800 lb trailer(say 1850, to be safe, it's an estimate) has a load of 925 lbs per tire, I see that I could deflate down from 50 psi to 25 psi. !!!! I really have doubts about this on the highway, slinging my trailer around, dodging potholes and 18-wheelers. I would prefer, first time out on a road trip with these new tires, to start at the max pressure (cold) of 50 psi, and use my experience to judge how close to the 25 psi that I would dare go. If I was off-roading even, I probably wouldn't go to 25 psi, always preferring 20% more than minimum, when the tires are mounted on narrow wheels (mine are 6", making the sidewalls have more flex than a wider rim). It's a work in progress, but at least I have more info to base future decisions on.


Another check you can do is the "chalk test" with the trailer loaded color a straight line accross the tread with chalk, then drive straight ahead for a little bit. If the chalk wears off in the middle, then the tire is over inflated, if it wears off on the edges, then its under inflated.
This is a table I found a while back, its based on the load rating of the tire
tire load vs psi.jpg
tire load vs psi.jpg (296.78 KiB) Viewed 448 times
A lower pressure will also help the trailer ride a bit smoother, and make it less likely to catch air on the bumps.
Tom
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby Alex Brown » Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:28 pm

Just wanted to share this vid. Hope it helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZQpS05QMs
http://www.fairfaxtowing.net/
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby working on it » Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:15 pm

Alex Brown wrote:Just wanted to share this vid. Hope it helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZQpS05QMs
http://www.fairfaxtowing.net/
  • I saw that video awhile back; it confirmed my choice of all-terrain tires for both my truck and later, my trailer, were the best compromise for me. I might never need any mud-terrain tires on my trailer, since I haven't made it off-road yet, but for the little dirt or gravelly road travel I foresee (until I have a 4wd vehicle), all-terrain will do the job, on each.
  • I carry heavy loads in my truck, and since it came with E-range LT tires on it, I would not consider anything of lesser strength. I chose the best tires for the money, but with a more aggressive tread than others, for the occasional unpaved road. I might've chosen the same tire for my trailer, but could only find just a few 14-inch LT tires on the market, and bought a moderately aggressive tread pattern tire, for the same reason (my other choice was a true mud-terrain tread, but felt that it was not needed-yet-).
  • MY ALL TERRAIN TIRES.png
    MY ALL TERRAIN TIRES.png (272.3 KiB) Viewed 282 times
    similar open tread and siping for all purposes
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring: 3500 lb Dexter axle w/brakes & HD leaf spring system > riding on General Grabber 27x8.5-14LT tires, LED lighting inside, A/C & heat, AGM battery 12vdc, 110vac from extended run generator onboard or park power, Coleman dual-fuel stove & Northstar lantern
  • 147697148333
  • 148599125895148106
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Re: All Terrain Tires

Postby Alex Brown » Mon May 01, 2017 6:04 pm

You got it dude!

Alex Brown
http://www.fairfaxtowing.net/
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