Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

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Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby nik1093 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:32 pm

I feel like I saw a thread on this but can't seem to locate any information about an issue I'm trying to get my head around. For my exterior skin I will be using 4mm Okoume Marine Ply with 6 oz cloth and RAKA epoxy. My question is how to attach the exterior roof ply to the roof spars if I don't want to have any hardware showing through the clear epoxy. However, I'm thinking I might not mind seeing the mounting hardware if is nice, stainless steel, and well done. Maybe stainless steel brad nails?
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby Sparksalot » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:55 pm

If you've ever seen how stitch and glue boat building works with the exact materials you mentioned that could be an option. I'm in the middle of it with a kayak right now.

I could envision using staples to hold the roof to the spars as glue sets. Remove the staples after, and then glass/epoxy. From more the inches away, the staple holes will disappear.
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The Compass Rose build thread: viewtopic.php?t=23213

Inspiration: http://tnttt.com/Design_Library/Trailer%20for%20Two.htm

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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby tony.latham » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:06 pm

Good question.

You might consider stainless flat head screws countersunk and spaced every 3". I think it'd give a nice finished appearance.

T
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby nik1093 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:44 pm

Sparksalot wrote:If you've ever seen how stitch and glue boat building works with the exact materials you mentioned that could be an option. I'm in the middle of it with a kayak right now.

I could envision using staples to hold the roof to the spars as glue sets. Remove the staples after, and then glass/epoxy. From more the inches away, the staple holes will disappear.


I like the idea of this. I was imagining that once it was glassed and epoxied, you wouldn’t need to rely on mechanical fasteners between the roof ply and spars.

tony.latham wrote:Good question.

You might consider stainless flat head screws countersunk and spaced every 3". I think it'd give a nice finished appearance.

T


Yea I think it looks really good on this 1911 Mercedes.

153674

I like the spacing they use too. Would I be able to countersink screws in plywood that’s just over an 1/8 thick?
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby tony.latham » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:40 am

Would I be able to countersink screws in plywood that’s just over an 1/8 thick?


Absolutely. You'd want to practice on a scrap piece first since it'll be a bit of a challenge to get the correct depth. Using a bit with an adjustable stop collar would help. (Sheathing with .040 aluminum, I connect the top-rear sheat with countersunk flathead screws so the hinge will fit over them.)

I'm assuming you'll glue the plywood down with something like PL Premium. So you could screw it down with pan-head screws and remove them after the glue is set and then fill the holes.

Either way will work.

I use 1/4" crown staples. They are hard to notice on the interior ceiling. But they'd be a beast to remove.

Tony
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby Sparksalot » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:18 pm

nik1093 wrote:
I like the idea of this. I was imagining that once it was glassed and epoxied, you wouldn’t need to rely on mechanical fasteners between the roof ply and spars.



I actually head my roof ply in place with staples until the glue set. I did a padded vinyl roof to finish it.
Done? Surely you jest. A teardrop is never "done".

The Compass Rose build thread: viewtopic.php?t=23213

Inspiration: http://tnttt.com/Design_Library/Trailer%20for%20Two.htm

It's got a cop motor, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks.
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby Toytaco2 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:49 am

Someone on this forum recommended the following a few years back and I used it in my build. I used 1/4 inch crown staples to hold the roof ply in place shooting the staples through some of that poly stripping used in shipping packaging. After the glue dried I was able to pull the stripping off and the staples came right out with it. Obviously you don’t want your staples to be too long and you want to run some tests prior to using in your build. Worked for me.


Mike


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Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby nik1093 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:31 pm

Toytaco2 wrote:Someone on this forum recommended the following a few years back and I used it in my build. I used 1/4 inch crown staples to hold the roof ply in place shooting the staples through some of that poly stripping used in shipping packaging. After the glue dried I was able to pull the stripping off and the staples came right out with it. Obviously you don’t want your staples to be too long and you want to run some tests prior to using in your build. Worked for me.


Mike


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I like the idea of shipping straps with staples. Were the holes very noticeable when you removed the staples?


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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby Toytaco2 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:25 pm

I treated my camper with CPES and filled any holes/imperfections with epoxy filler and then painted, so, of course, the staple holes are effectively gone/disappeared. The staple holes would probably show on any camper with a clear finish. I've never used fiberglass cloth and epoxy, so, I cannot say if the holes would be visible through that process or not. If it were me, I'd definitely test the process on scrap material to see if the appearance was acceptable or not.

Good Luck,

Mike
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:58 pm

Maybe not the best for a woodie, but my Okoume had some variation in hardness, so FH screws didn't always pull up the same amount, despite practice and carefully setting my driver clutch. So what I did was cut a bunch of square wooden washers from the copious strips of Okoume scrap, and used those under the screws (staples might pull out on aggressive radii and/or thicker ply, like my 5mm).

That way, after the glue had cured I could unscrew, pull the wooden washers off, and either fill over the holes, or run the screws back in to just the right depth; now that the force to hold the ply down was not a factor in how tight the screw wanted to be vs. how hard it was pulling into the surface.

For me, this was all going to be covered over by foam and an outer skin, but the washer idea could work well with staples. I tried the binding tape method, I believe it was Aggie79 who shared this idea... there are various grades, thicknesses, toughness of this... and the particular stuff I used did not want to pull my staples with it, but it did leave a little gap under the staple after pulling the tape out (kept the staples from driving too deep) that did help with prying the staples out. But still, for me, that would take great care not to damage the wood if building a woodie.
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass - 23 gauge pin na

Postby Esteban » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:38 pm

Another way to attach 1/8" plywood to the inner framework would be to use a 23 gauge pin nailer. The pins are nearly invisible once they are shot into wood. After fiberglassing the pins would be very very hard to see. The pins will work much like clamps to hold thin plywood onto the frame as glue sets up. A pin nailer can considerably speed up the work too. You also might use it for making cabinets and cabinet doors.

I'm very pleased with a Hitachi pin nailer.

Steve - SLO, CA
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Re: Visible Hardware With Epoxy/Fiberglass

Postby wysedav » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:51 pm

On strip canoes we staple and the use essentially an old style can opener to remove the staples. After wet the wood and then iron, the heat and water swells the wood so the staple hole pretty much disappear. Just make sure you set up the stapler so the staples are a little proud of the surface. Fillers don't really work great because as the wood darkens over time the fillers don't. Alternatively it would be pretty easy to use cauls an no fasteners at all.

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