adhesive and fabric

Important Information and Stickies...
(Threads with essential information about building teardrops)

adhesive and fabric

Postby gmoulder » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:42 am

All:
Getting down to the short rows now before I must have a Path Forward on the adhesive and fabric to use for the roof and cabin covering. Was hoping to get more comment / advice from my Newbie intro on this subject. The last cabin composite panel went up yesterday, and the galley area was finished with the plywood covering [oak]. This coming week, I will devote to installing structural integrity members in various places, although the thing seems solid as a rock now; and hopefully, send the dinette table, pass through, and galley countertop to the laminate installer [no, I am not going to try to be an expert on that the first time out]. Also next week, I will make tear-off tests and stiffness tests on the following 4" x 4' x 1" XPA foam: Glidden and canvas, TB3 and canvas, FF and canvas, FF and bug screen. The foam will be perforated, and the skin will be on both top and bottom sides. I will suspend the samples across saw horses and try with different suspended distances and weights. Afterwards, I will perform the tear-off tests. Next week, I will get some help to come over and fill in the holes between the wood members and the foam with light weight spackle, and then fair the exterior surface of the cabin after the spackle drys. Then, I must have an answer as to what system to use on the cabin side [and later the roof]. Surely, with the collective experience out there, there is some consensus. I will post photos if I can figure out how to do it. Again, I am looking for long time adhesion, contribution to stiffness, and impact resistance.
Thanks, Glen
gmoulder
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:34 pm

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby Mr. Lahey » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:36 am

I am going to bond canvas to plywood not foam. So you might choose a different bonding adhesive than me?

The route I'm taking was chosen after some tear off tests of my own. I will be bonding the canvas to the ply with uncut TB2. Tried various dilute rates and they all pulled off easier than the 100% TB2 to wood.

I too want to add some stiffness and abrasion resistance with the canvas skin. I found after bonding the canvas I used a top coat of 50% TB2 and water on the canvas surface. When dry it really stiffened and hardened the canvas considerably. Others here will tell you to bond the canvas and then soak it with paint. Many have also used the diluted glue too. So which is the correct method? Is there a Correct method?

I am going to do one more test before I apply the canvas. I am going to try less dilution of the TB2 for the first top coat. I think it may dry even harder than my original test. Might go for 2/3 TB2 and 1/3 water mix and see if that soaks into the cloth good.

Final top coats will be exterior paint. Good luck with your project. Keep us posted with what you decide and why.
My teardrop camper build journal: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
Mr. Lahey
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:18 am
Location: Delavan WI

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby VTSteve » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:40 pm

As a newbie who has not yet started his build I wonder why most all the PMF users seem to use cotton cloth or canvas as their fabric? I remember the old canvas covered canoes of yesteryear and they held up pretty well. Of course they were using lead based paints too which are no longer feasible. When those old canoes started to fail it usually included the cotton canvas rotting. Now-a-days why not use a synthetic fabric like dacron or polyester? Though synthetics will degrade from UV radiation they won't rot like cotton will. Seems the latex paints of today would be more compatible with synthetics too. The cotton canvas just seems like a bad choice to me. What am I missing?
User avatar
VTSteve
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 14
Images: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:42 pm
Location: Vermont
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby pchast » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:32 pm

The synthetic cloth does not soak in the paint or glue like a cotton or linen can.
pchast
Platinum Donating Member
 
Posts: 1532
Images: 96
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:47 pm
Location: Athens, NY
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby VTSteve » Wed May 01, 2019 8:29 am

But doesn't cotton canvas also absorb water and eventually rot?
User avatar
VTSteve
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 14
Images: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:42 pm
Location: Vermont
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby tony.latham » Wed May 01, 2019 8:41 am

VTSteve wrote:As a newbie who has not yet started his build I wonder why most all the PMF users seem to use cotton cloth or canvas as their fabric? I remember the old canvas covered canoes of yesteryear and they held up pretty well. Of course they were using lead based paints too which are no longer feasible. When those old canoes started to fail it usually included the cotton canvas rotting. Now-a-days why not use a synthetic fabric like dacron or polyester? Though synthetics will degrade from UV radiation they won't rot like cotton will. Seems the latex paints of today would be more compatible with synthetics too. The cotton canvas just seems like a bad choice to me. What am I missing?


To keep my comment in context, I've never used the PMF system.

I would suggest that you test your theory on a square foot of scrap and see how it performs.

What works for sure is epoxy and fiberglass. It doesn't rot and you can't peel it off. I'll be placing an order today with Raka for my new build.

:thinking:

Tony
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 3622
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby Mr. Lahey » Wed May 01, 2019 6:38 pm

VTSteve wrote:But doesn't cotton canvas also absorb water and eventually rot?


No it does not.

Thats why you completly saturate the canvas with either waterproof glue or exterior paint. When dry these products are completly waterproof. Since they saturate the canvas the canvas can no longer absorb water.


Try it yourself. Cut a patch of fabric. Saturate it with paint or thinned glue. Smooth it out on a scrap of plywood and let it dry.
My teardrop camper build journal: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64721
Mr. Lahey
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:18 am
Location: Delavan WI
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby VTSteve » Wed May 01, 2019 7:48 pm

I think I'm inclined to go the epoxy/fiberglass route. I've used epoxy/fiberglass on the outside boats and it works well. Costs quite a bit though. And the sanding labor is a bit much but it held up well over time, at least the part of the boat that was above water. I used interlux marine paint brushed on after sanding and it looked sprayed. I wish there was something easier and cheaper that was as good. I wonder, if we compared the cost of laying 4 oz fiberglass cloth and epoxy over wood with PMF how the costs would compare. Someone here must have done a cost comparison. It would probably come down to where you are sourcing your materials. Apples to oranges so to speak.
User avatar
VTSteve
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 14
Images: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:42 pm
Location: Vermont
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby tony.latham » Wed May 01, 2019 8:23 pm

I wonder, if we compared the cost of laying 4 oz fiberglass cloth and epoxy over wood with PMF how the costs would compare.


I just pulled the trigger at Raka.

11 yards 2oz fiberglass: $37. (walls)
6 yards 4oz fiberglass: $38. (roof)
3 gallon non-blush kit: $180

I'll use part of the epoxy on the galley floor and the bottom of the floor ––no black goo for me. :frightened:

Tony
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 3622
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby VTSteve » Wed May 01, 2019 8:47 pm

I think that is the route I'll take. Raka epoxy. I did not know there was 2oz cloth. Makes sense to keep it as light as possible if going over plywood. I wonder what you'll do on the corners. I've used strips cut on a diagonal on boats. It cost less than the tape and no edge seam to fair out. Wonder if you'll use any filler to mae fairing the surface easier to sand.
User avatar
VTSteve
Teardrop Inspector
 
Posts: 14
Images: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:42 pm
Location: Vermont
Top

Re: adhesive and fabric

Postby tony.latham » Wed May 01, 2019 9:36 pm

I ordered bias tape from Duckworks for the corners.

I’ve got plenty of filler material.

T


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
tony.latham
Gold Donating Member
 
Posts: 3622
Images: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Middle of Idaho on the edge of nowhere
Top


Return to Essential Information about building teardrops

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest