the jelly belly build

...ask your questions in the appropriate forums BUT document your build here...preferably in a single thread...dates for updates, are appreciated....

Postby del » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:32 am

Thanks Andrew

Don't know what i would do without you. Would ordering similar quantities to Steve (pufin build) sound about right for my build, or do you have different recommendations for my build?
steve wolverton wrote:
That's a gallon of resin, fast + slow hardener (mixed together later), 6 yards of fiberglass, 1 pound of wood flour, and 1 pound of glass bubbles.



thanks del
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Postby del » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:18 am

hi all

There are many weights of cloth, I am assuming they have different uses. On the outside a lighter cloth would be easier to smooth over (for paint). On the inside I am thinking an heavier what they call fiberglass tape (2"), because it will be covered, and i think it is stronger. My plan is to cover the outside, build up on the inside of the doors (cloth not tape), and strengthen the joints and ribs on the inside. If my plan is flawed please let me know.

Build progress: as soon as the dr. lets me put weight on this leg I will be at it again (be it slowly at first).

del
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Postby Juneaudave » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:49 am

I've been buying cloth from http://www.raka.com/. On my stripper woody, I'm using a 60" wide 4 oz cloth. 60" is good for a 5' wide build because you don't have to overlap pieces to get the width.

On my stripper canoes/boats...I typically use a 6 oz cloth...once you get up to 9 oz or so, it gets much more difficult to wet out with epoxy.

One thing that you can do is rather than buy tape, you can cut the cloth on a bias to make your own strips. The bias cut will conform to the curves and angles much better. Regardless, on the outside, I don't know if you can get the cloth to wrap around the corners without it puckering up. You may have to use tape on the outside joints, then fair it in for the cloth.

Smoothness should not be a problem within reason. I find the main difference in a 4 oz to a 6 oz, is the amount of epoxy it takes to fill the weave and the lighter the fabric, the more care you need to take in handling it.

On your build, if you decide to use cloth (and I'm not certain that is the way to go), you will have some problems glassing where the curvature turns towards the underside. It's much more difficult to do on an underside without making a big mess.

You might give Larry at Raka a call and have hime take a look at your pictures. Larry is pretty helpful and may have some ideas.

Good luck... :)
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Postby del » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:32 pm

Juneaudave

You say cloth is not the only way I can go. Ok newbee :baby: question here what are the other(s) way(s) I can go? I figured with 1\8 ply I had to use fiberglass to reinforce it. :thinking: My best thinking is quite often not good enough, so any suggestions will help. :question:
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Postby Juneaudave » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:47 pm

Del...you know...your build is way beyond anything I've ever tried. Glass will certainly strengthen the 1/8 ply...but I've never seen what happens with glassed over 1/8 ply over such a large span between ribs. The curvature must help strengthen things considerably. The thing that comes to my mind is to add additional ribs to gain strength as opposed to relying on glass, then stich and glue the seams.

Not much help, but you know what they say about advice freely given.... :thinking:
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Postby glassice » Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:00 pm

If you are use cloth it show alot of little squares use 3/4 mat sand 320 then add a layer of suface veil .
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Postby Steve Frederick » Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:53 pm

Just read this thread! Wow Del, cool build!
Instead of buying tape for the inside joints, make your own..Cut regular cloth at a 45-degree (bias) angle. Make them about 2" wide. Bias cut cloth will form around compound curves easily..tape may not!
How's the limb mending??? I'm hooked on your project..Need more pics!!!
Oh..Not of the leg..The build!! :lol:
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Postby del » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:23 pm

Juneaudave

The ribs are spaced so far apart because the door sits in the middle. So unless I lose some weight, and build a 12" wide door I am stuck with this. The next spar will not be so radical a distance back (this is built, but not installed yet, kinda wanted to reinforce the inside of the door without it in the way). Will add a support just above the door, and tie the floor into the wall. My thoughts for doing the side are rolling the body on its side. Thanks for the input, fiberglass like this is new to me, but that never stopped me before (i just ask a lot of questions).

Steve

Thanks for the tips (both now and from your cd). One question is what weight of cloth do you suggest for the outside of this build?
My leg, well I see the dr friday. Then probably a "walking" boot that keeps the ankle from moving (no way I can walk in this).
Pictures :snappy: will have to wait (sorry Madjack and auntie M), my wheelchair will not make down the steps to get to the trailer.

thanks del :thumbsup:
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Postby Steve Frederick » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:48 pm

del wrote:
Steve

Thanks for the tips (both now and from your cd). One question is what weight of cloth do you suggest for the outside of this build?

thanks del :thumbsup:

You're welcome Del!
Well' I figure that you're basically building a stich-n-glue kayak..in process.
On the last one (kayak) I did I used 6-oz 'glass. Raka has a 3.25-oz product that is as strong as the 6-oz. 3.25 will work well. I'm using the lighter stuff on my T/D's now.The down side to heavier glass == more epoxy, to wet it out, and to fill the weave for paint.
I guess I'm saying lighter 'glass is better..Are the ribs staying, or just a form?
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Postby doug hodder » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 pm

Del...just an idea...if you choose to make your own tape by cutting the cloth on the bias...remember to make sure you have extra sharp scissors, or a curved exacto blade and a straight edge with some downforce to keep the cloth from moving, and you have nothing like any resin on your hands, or a hangnail for that matter...once cut on the bias and being only a couple of inches wide, It'll unravel and shread like you can't believe...Don't handle it much...tape has a fused edge to prevent this and can take more stretching than the cut material. It can get quite messy trying to wet out raw edges on the stuff you cut, you'll be surprised on what it will snag on...but this is just my experience with it, others may vary...Doug
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Postby del » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:58 pm

Steve

The ribs are staying, the forward most one will support the door hinges, internal (head bumping variety, Andrew warned me) ones.

del
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Postby Miriam C. » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:21 pm

doug hodder wrote:Del...just an idea...if you choose to make your own tape by cutting the cloth on the bias...remember to make sure you have extra sharp scissors, or a curved exacto blade and a straight edge with some downforce to keep the cloth from moving, and you have nothing like any resin on your hands, or a hangnail for that matter...once cut on the bias and being only a couple of inches wide, It'll unravel and shread like you can't believe...Don't handle it much...tape has a fused edge to prevent this and can take more stretching than the cut material. It can get quite messy trying to wet out raw edges on the stuff you cut, you'll be surprised on what it will snag on...but this is just my experience with it, others may vary...Doug


I am surprised you guys aren't using rotary cutters.
Wonder how they would hold up. 8)
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Postby doug hodder » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:46 pm

Good point Auntie M...but if you don't have one....16$ or so, on a 45MM cutter and you'd need some sort of mat to cut on, could be done on hardboard however...I've got one in the shop that I've cut glass cloth/leather/neoprene with, but it's tough on them....doug
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Postby glassice » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:03 am

Why make it hard to do. Do your layers with mat then woven with a mat top layer your not making a jet fighter and woven like to pull . . Trying to do 45 Dre is very hard to keep strait over head .THE MOST in portend thing to do is cover with a pant tarp it helps keep the resin from running.If you use surface vial it will save a lot of resin Take a look at the post kill your shelf that way you can keep your work space a Little warmer it help with the resin .Box is to go out Friday
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Postby angib » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:11 am

Incidentally, I don't believe it's necessary to put fiberglass on the outside - a wide tape on the inside will do nearly as well and then it avoids the problem of fairing the glass on the outside before painting.

It would be worth adding a very thin layer over the outside of the corners to reinforce them - mainly to ensure you don't get cracking along the joint, which I suspect will have some filler in it, as making perfect joints on this sort of body shape is very hard to do.

I built a dinghy with only internally-reinforced joints and it's still going strong 10 years later.

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