Bolt on hubs

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Bolt on hubs

Postby pepsifreek » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:53 pm

Hi all, I'm a long time admirer of the teardrop trailer and I have plans to build one "someday" when I finally retire...

I have a tow dolly that I'm restoring and was wondering if it would work as an axle for a teardrop.

In the mean time I want to use it for it's intended purpose and need to replace the hubs but don't know where to look for replacements.

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The grease looks and smells fine but I'd hate to take a chance on it, I'm getting it ready for a 3700 mile trip.

it has the following information stamped on it.

"Metric 6177" on the head of the wheel studs
"NDH-USA" on the dust cap
"F 009 SD 03" on the main body
"016C" and "0YD7"

The trailer itself looks like it was refurbished and used as a rental by
Uhaul. It's painted brown and beige (instead of orange and white) but there
are stickers and mudflaps that read, "custom trailers by Uhaul".

Are these types even made any more?
Anyone know where I can find two?

Thanks in advance
Tracy
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Postby brian_bp » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:38 pm

If it was made to typical U-Haul specs, the bolt pattern should be about 5x4.75" (and I see it is 5-bolt), with a significant wheel offset (and it looks like it needs an inch or two of offset to place the load appopriately on the bearings) unlike a typical trailer. If so, maybe it's something used on more standard U-Haul equipment.

Still on the "typical U-Haul" theme, the corresponding wheel is hard to find but apparently matches a Chevy Corvair. I wonder if the hub unit is originally from the front of a Corvair, or even the rear (just without the outer CV joint)? This general design (a bolt-on carrier) is pretty common at the rear of front-drive cars, but of course the question is which car...
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Postby pepsifreek » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:15 pm

brian_bp wrote:This general design (a bolt-on carrier) is pretty common at the rear of front-drive cars, but of course the question is which car...


That's what I was afraid of, I guess I'll visit the salvage yard tomorrow... (woohoo)

As per my other idea, has there been a micro trailer built on a tow dolly axle? I've been toying with the idea of making the cabin removable so it would work for either camping or towing...
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Re: Bolt on hubs

Postby del » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:20 pm

pepsifreek wrote:"F 009 SD 03" on the main body
"016C" and "0YD7"
Tracy

I think this is a clue, does any one know what make has this type of part number? Take the hub to a tyre shop, find out what bolt pattern it is, and what cars had that pattern, narrow your search a bit.

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Postby Dale M. » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:46 pm

Here is good thread about finding wheels...

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=7094

Here is some data from one message if you hubs are 5 on 4.75...

5 on 4-3/4
Buick - Regal, Century, Special (most mid-size) '64-'80's
Chevy van
Chevrolet - all (exc as noted elsewhere) '49-'89
Corvette all
Corvair '65-'69 5-bolt
GM compact and midsize
Oldsmobile - 442, Cutlass, F-85, Toronado
(most mid-size) '60's-'80's
Pontiac - GTO, LeMans, Firebird, Grand Prix
(mid size) '64-'80's


Here is tool that may help you...

http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=14918

Happy hunting...

If you can not find exact wheel you need at salvage yard this company can custom make any wheel pattern with any offset you want/need...

http://customcommercialwheel.com/


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Postby pepsifreek » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:38 am

Thanks, excellent infomation. I think there may some confusion though, I have wheels, it's the hubs that I want to replace. I'm pretty sure I found a replacement here http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/cgi-bin/ryderfp/products/srm/oid/143802/pn/Hub-and-Spindle-5-bolt-on-115MM/erm/product_detail.jsp but I was hoping to replace them with something that I could change the bearings out with next time they need changing...

Finding a donar car with a bolt on hub, with a matching (car to hub) bolt pattern with the correct lug pattern with the right offset may be impossible, but that wont stop me from trying. I'm headed to get new tires today and there is a "junk" yard on the way. happy hunting to me :thumbsup:
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Postby Alphacarina » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:21 pm

Your old hubs are probably 15 or 20 years old and likely have half a million miles on them - A new set will surely outlive you . . . . unless you rent it out several times a week so that it's always on the road ;)

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Postby brian_bp » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:02 pm

So what was the verdict on bolt pattern? Is it definitely 5x115mm?

I was only guessing at 5x4.75" (120.65 mm) based on the U-Haul connection.
5x115 mm is an available pattern, but not common (apparently it is used by Chrysler on the 300, for instance). It is close enough to 5x4.5" (114.3 mm) that some people mount the wrong wheel (or in this case, if the wheels are 5x4.5" then a 5x115mm hub would be close but wrong).

I had not noticed that among the GMs using the 5x4.75" pattern is the original Toronado; if that were the bolt pattern, the rear of that front-wheel-drive Toronado would be a very likely source of this style of hub.

The Demco part sure looks similar. Do the other dimensions (e.g. spacing of the four holes for mounting bolts, diameter of the mounting-side bore, distance from mounting flange or bearing centre to hub face) match? The NDH identification is a good sign (presumably that or Demco as the manufacturer led to the find), the source suggests that it's the hub used on Ryder rental dollies, and the metric stud thread (12mm x 1.5 in the other Demco parts from Ryder) corresponds as well.
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Postby pepsifreek » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:27 am

brian_bp wrote:So what was the verdict on bolt pattern? Is it definitely 5x115mm?

I was only guessing at 5x4.75" (120.65 mm) based on the U-Haul connection.
5x115 mm is an available pattern, but not common (apparently it is used by Chrysler on the 300, for instance). It is close enough to 5x4.5" (114.3 mm) that some people mount the wrong wheel (or in this case, if the wheels are 5x4.5" then a 5x115mm hub would be close but wrong).

I had not noticed that among the GMs using the 5x4.75" pattern is the original Toronado; if that were the bolt pattern, the rear of that front-wheel-drive Toronado would be a very likely source of this style of hub.


To be honest, I'm not reallt sure, I havn't measured it <blushing> is there a good graphic on the site that explains what where how to take the measurements?

The junk yard was a bust yesterday as it rained all day and I had no intentions of wading in mud up to my knees while looking for something that I probably wouldnt find anyway...

The Demco part sure looks similar. Do the other dimensions (e.g. spacing of the four holes for mounting bolts, diameter of the mounting-side bore, distance from mounting flange or bearing centre to hub face) match? The NDH identification is a good sign (presumably that or Demco as the manufacturer led to the find), the source suggests that it's the hub used on Ryder rental dollies, and the metric stud thread (12mm x 1.5 in the other Demco parts from Ryder) corresponds as well.


I'm thinking it's the same but unfortunately there are no dimentions save for the wheel bolt pattern, I'm betting they're a match but I think tomorrow I'll start making calls to see if I can find a willing "measerer" who has one in their hand. Probably all made in china now...

Alphacarina wrote:Your old hubs are probably 15 or 20 years old and likely have half a million miles on them - A new set will surely outlive you . . . . unless you rent it out several times a week so that it's always on the road ;)Don


You're probably right, the idea of a "snap together" hubs just seem so rinky dink though...
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Postby Nitetimes » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:44 am

pepsifreek wrote:
To be honest, I'm not reallt sure, I havn't measured it <blushing> is there a good graphic on the site that explains what where how to take the measurements?



This might help you out a little bit.

http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=14918
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Postby Alphacarina » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:32 pm

pepsifreek wrote:You're probably right, the idea of a "snap together" hubs just seem so rinky dink though...

U-Haul does things like that to make repairs in the field quick and easy. The nearest U-Haul facility sends out a guy with the whole hub assembly and in 10 minutes, their customer is back on the road

I had a tail light go out on a U-Haul car dolly and I couldn't figure out how to change the bulb . . . . so I called U-Haul. They had a guy there within about 15 minutes and in 5 minutes he changed the entire tail light assembly. Turns out they were designed to be replaced as a whole . . . . the dealers don't even stock bulbs!

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Postby Dale M. » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:24 pm

According to another site without much details you best bet for some sort of bolt on hubs may be Toyota Corolla/Corona/Camry Bearings.

Don't have any more information than this.... Pretty good chance that if it is a truly bolt on hub, its NOT going to fit your application...

Ultimately you may want to have axle stubs welded in and use a common readily available hub, like found on traditional axles....

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Postby BPFox » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:53 am

So why exaxtly do you want to replace the hubs? Why not just replace the bearings? From your pictures it appears to me that the bearings are newer than the hubs which means they must be replaceable. In fact they look pretty new which makes me wonder, once again, why you want to replace them at all. If the grease does not smell burnt and there is no aprreciable play in the hub, I can't see why there would be a problem. As long as bearings are greased and adjusted they last a very long time. I have an equipment trailer that is over 9 years old and has well over 100.000 miles on it and it still has the original wheel bearings. I use it every day with complete confidence.

That said, if you still feel the need to replace them, I would go down to your local bearing supply house and see what they can do to help. The numbers you have listed will help them identify the parts you need. Why cobble something up from junk yard parts when the supply house could very well have the exact parts you need.

I would think the bigger poblem here is using this axle for a tear drop trailer. On the car dollies I have used there is no suspension. That works fine for towing cars because the car has a suspension to the trailer doesn't really need one. They do tend to bounce all over the plaace when empty, however, and that is what it will be like if you try to build a teardrop out of one of them. If the one you have does have springs it's no problem. Many of the ones I have seen don't and that would be a huge problem for your build. Hope this helps. Peace.
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Postby pepsifreek » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:50 pm

BPFox wrote:So why exaxtly do you want to replace the hubs? Why not just replace the bearings? From your pictures it appears to me that the bearings are newer than the hubs which means they must be replaceable. In fact they look pretty new which makes me wonder, once again, why you want to replace them at all.


?? I don't think you're seeing it right. The bearings arent visible in the picture, what you see in the upper right portion of the picture is a backing plate that is machine pressed on. Of course "everything comes apart" but I would have to use a gas axe to do it and then of course I wouldn't be able to re asemble them...

BPFox wrote: If the grease does not smell burnt and there is no aprreciable play in the hub, I can't see why there would be a problem. As long as bearings are greased and adjusted they last a very long time. I have an equipment trailer that is over 9 years old and has well over 100.000 miles on it and it still has the original wheel bearings. I use it every day with complete confidence.


The guy I bought the dolly from found it on his "back 40" completely obscured under a huge hedge of ivy and brambles. It had been there for a long - long time, from the rust and the condition of the tires I'd say 10 years at least. Not exactly optimal conditions...

BPFox wrote:That said, if you still feel the need to replace them, I would go down to your local bearing supply house and see what they can do to help. The numbers you have listed will help them identify the parts you need. Why cobble something up from junk yard parts when the supply house could very well have the exact parts you need.


All things considered, I do think that a bit of preventive maintenance is in order and if I could "cobble" a set of bolt on spindles that I could put new bearings on I think it would be a good thing. Finding something with a matching bolt pattern is unlikely and lead me to the Demco replacement hubs. The $150 pricetag on them convinced me to give the current hubs a chance though. I've torn everything down, scraped and wire wheeled all the rust, gave it a couple of coats of rust converter and rewired the whole thing. The new tires should be here in a few days, after I get them on I'll take it out for a 20-30 mile test run and see if the bearings heat up.

BPFox wrote:I would think the bigger poblem here is using this axle for a tear drop trailer. On the car dollies I have used there is no suspension. That works fine for towing cars because the car has a suspension to the trailer doesn't really need one. They do tend to bounce all over the plaace when empty, however, and that is what it will be like if you try to build a teardrop out of one of them. If the one you have does have springs it's no problem. Many of the ones I have seen don't and that would be a huge problem for your build. Hope this helps. Peace.


After working through everything I came to the same conclusion, aside from the fact that it would shake the hell out of the trailer, it's really heavy. Once this trip is concluded I'll sell the dolly and start looking for a suitable cantidate.

Thanks all for your input, more to follow...
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