CPES and "Epoxy"

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CPES and "Epoxy"

Postby alftinc » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:03 pm

I know it must have been asked before, but I have been unable to find the answer here. does CPES build up enough to be just varnished over and look good?? I have built kayaks and used System Three epoxy and it builds up nice and deep. The question is: Can you use CPES and then use a good epoxy over it to build a deeper finish before Varnishing. I would also like to add the idea of using a squeegee to apply the epoxy instead of a roller or brush. It goes on faster to beat the pot life, and leaves fewer bubbles. Thanks.

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Postby Miriam C. » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:33 pm

Clint, Rot Doctor told me CPES can be built up to make a gloss finish. You can varnish over any number of layers but best to add more. My opinion! :thumbsup:

I put epoxy on the top of mine with a squeegee and found it harder to get a level surface than with a brush. You might do better.
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Postby doug hodder » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:50 pm

Just my opinion, but for building up a smooth deep finish...a roller designed to apply epoxy and then "tipping it off" with a sliced roller portion will build up a thick finish much quicker than a squeegee. It will lay down nice and flat in a more uniform coat and be much easier to sand for subsequent coats or a top coat. It can also be applied both vertically and horizontally. I don't know the specifics on System 3 or CPES however. I use West System. I'm sure that if you prepare the CPES correctly, additional coats of epoxy can be laid on top to give the depth and premium finish if that's your goal.

I usually only do loads of epoxy that I can roll on in like 20 min. intervals, then mix up another load in the same pan, using the same roller. I just think you're better to do up a number of smaller batches, than mix up one big one. The thing is...mix up a large batch and the clock starts running on it.

A brush in my opinion doesn't cover the ground like a roller does in the same amount of time, + you don't have to deal with loose bristles. I use a brush for those areas I can't get to with a roller. A squeegee can give you varying thicknesses. Unfortunately, there is no "really quick" way to get a nice clear finish, it takes time and patience. Others experiences may vary. Doug
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Postby planovet » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:05 am

You could probably get away with just CPES but it's really too thin to build up a thick coat without a LOT of coats. I would use a coat or two of CPES for penetration into the wood and then use a thicker epoxy on top of that for subsequent coats.
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Postby H@nk » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:54 pm

Yep, use a roller and don t use to much hardener, its gonna be hotter than hell.
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Postby ktm_2000 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:59 pm

I'd be carefull of any epoxy product that is going to be finished clear....

I spent a rediculous amount of time building a Center console for my boat out of mahogany ply and solid stock. When done I gave it 3 coats in west systems special resin and hardener which is supposed to be uv proof and took special care to avoid amine blush and then covered the whole thing in 8 coats of uv resistant marine varnish.

It took 2 years but the epoxy yellowed, and ruined the appearance of the finish.
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Postby doug hodder » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:49 am

Are you sure it was the epoxy that yellowed and not the finish on top? Did you seal the backside so moisture couldn't get in from it? The West 207 has a slight amber cast to it when applied, it's UV resistant, not proof. I don't use varnish so my opinion may not count, but use auto clear coat...I've got 4 years on a boat deck with the epoxy undercoat and looks good as new, 3 on a tear and no issues. Any varnish whether it's "marine" or otherwise takes more maintenance, especially if it's out in the sun for long durations. Wood boats with a varnish top coat on them take considerably more maintenance and get recoated pretty regularly, like yearly depending on exposure. Just what I hear from the wood boat crowd in ACBS. I'm not doubting what you say is true, but makes me wonder why so many of the new high dollar wood boats use it. The true hard core vintage crowd doesn't...you get points knocked off if it's a judged boat and it's in epoxy, but they spend a lot of time and $$ refinishing them. Doug
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Postby Arne » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:23 pm

Doug, you tip by dragging a roller instead of a brush..... ?

Interesting, if true... please confirm for my spring t/d paint job.

send me a p/m if you want, don't want to steal the thread... thanks.
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Postby dmckruit » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:25 pm

Believe it or not, but epoxy coatings will yellow faster in the dark than in full sunlight.
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Postby asianflava » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:38 pm

Arne wrote:Doug, you tip by dragging a roller instead of a brush..... ?

Interesting, if true... please confirm for my spring t/d paint job.

send me a p/m if you want, don't want to steal the thread... thanks.


We've talked about it, he does use a roller. The rollers that are specifically made for epoxy are made of foam. He takes the rollers and cuts them up, then uses a piece to drag across the rolled epoxy.
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Postby doug hodder » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:53 pm

Like Rocky says Arne...I get the west rollers, cut them in half, then cut the halves in half lengthwise....clamp it in a spring clamp and when you put down the epoxy, back drag it, with light pressure. Smooths it all out, helps it flow, no hairs from a brush. Doug
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Postby leaded » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:20 am

After talking to a paint chemist, ive found that:
Every only clears, who dont have any color pigments would over time change because of sun & weather.
If some pigmenets are blended in, the time it needs to change would drastic change to a much longer time.
It had something to do with the reflecting.......... 8) ... but a real woody sems nice! whatever times for rework...
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