OK, more noob questions- Electric brakes

Anything electric, AC or DC

OK, more noob questions- Electric brakes

Postby BoilermakerFan » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:48 am

What are all the required pieces to put electric brakes on a home built?

I found this:
http://www.etrailerpart.com/electricbrakeassemblies.htm

They have a sister site that has the brake controller, but what else is required?

Does anybody have their electric brake installation documented on their page?

TIA!

Brian
User avatar
BoilermakerFan
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA

Postby BoilermakerFan » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:55 pm

Nobody is putting brakes on their homebuilts?
User avatar
BoilermakerFan
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA

Postby mikeschn » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:47 am

I have electric brakes on the Baja Benroy. I bought the axle from Dexter complete with electric brakes...

The lil diner will not have electric brakes. It's going to be a whole lot lighter than the Baja Benroy was... Lightweight teardrops don't need electric brakes.

Mike...
The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten, so build your teardrop with the best materials...
User avatar
mikeschn
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19041
Images: 462
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:01 am
Location: MI
Top

Postby BoilermakerFan » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:49 am

Even 1,000lbs can bring the back end of the Jetta around in a hurry! I also don't like the way the trailer hitch attaches into the trunk well on the driver's side instead of the frame. Trailer brakes would help reduce the strain on the hitch during emergancy manuevers. Too many idiots with Driver's Licenses in my area of the Midwest. Then you add in all the suicidal deer and I would want electric brakes even on the Lil Diner.
User avatar
BoilermakerFan
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA
Top

Postby mexican tear » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:30 am

Brian

The biggest problem is in stalling the brake controller. If you have a new pickup or SUV (at least from Ford) it has all of the wiring installed. I have brakes installed on my TD because I plan on pulling it with my Jeep when I go offroad. Jeeps have terrible brakes, add a trailer and then you realy need the brakes on the trailer. The easiest thing to do if you do not have a vehicle that is prewired for a controller, go to a hitch place and have them install it.

kai
"Essie" and the Mexican Tear
Image
User avatar
mexican tear
Donating Member
 
Posts: 501
Images: 14
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Tecolutla, Veracruz, Mexico
Top

Postby mikeschn » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:50 am

BoilermakerFan wrote:Even 1,000lbs can bring the back end of the Jetta around in a hurry! I also don't like the way the trailer hitch attaches into the trunk well on the driver's side instead of the frame. Trailer brakes would help reduce the strain on the hitch during emergancy manuevers. Too many idiots with Driver's Licenses in my area of the Midwest. Then you add in all the suicidal deer and I would want electric brakes even on the Lil Diner.


Good thought. I'll have to keep that in mind after we start testing the Lil Diner behind the Jetta...

Mike...
The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten, so build your teardrop with the best materials...
User avatar
mikeschn
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19041
Images: 462
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:01 am
Location: MI
Top

Postby angib » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:11 am

It's cultural difference time again. Why are electric brakes a good idea? They seem like a very complex way of doing a job poorly - all that wiring and getting the controller set up, and then you get a non-proportional braking effect.

We Yurpeens always use overrun brakes - when the trailer tries to overrun the tow vehicle, it puts the trailer brakes on. I THINK this is what you call 'surge' brakes, but I ain't sure about that. In this system, the tow vehicle requires nothing at all.

You connect a hydraulically-damped overrun coupling to the trailer brakes by cables - yes, mechanical cables, just like in a Model T! Curiously, despite the vintage technology, they work quite well.... and a LOT better than no brakes at all.

Perhaps I should start exporting this hardware to the US? (Note: this web site isn't cheap, £1 = $1.80, but it's got a decent on-line catalogue.)

Andrew
User avatar
angib
5000 Club
5000 Club
 
Posts: 5783
Images: 231
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:04 pm
Location: (Olde) England
Top

Postby BoilermakerFan » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:04 am

The only problem with surge brakes that I'm aware of is that the add more weight than the electric brakes. The surge master makes the hitch very large and you can't have a removable tongue.

If there are other drawbacks to the surge brake setup, please post them.
User avatar
BoilermakerFan
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA
Top

Postby mexican tear » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:05 pm

I had surge brakes on a trailer once and never again. I was going down a steep grade (realy steep) and one of the drums cracked. Thus no brakes at all as the fluid all ran out the wheel cylinder.

At least electric brakes will work on one side and kind of on the broken side if it happens. It probably is one of those things that will never happen again, but...

Just my 2 cents worth.

kai
"Essie" and the Mexican Tear
Image
User avatar
mexican tear
Donating Member
 
Posts: 501
Images: 14
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: Tecolutla, Veracruz, Mexico
Top

Postby DanD » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:11 pm

If you ever towed a trailer and had the trailer start to fishtail or sway, it can be a nightmare without brakes.

Most people in a situation where the trailer starts to fishtail (swaying when passing a semi, strong crosswinds, etc) they tend to overcompensate, thus aggravating the situation by making the trailer sway even more. I have witness trailers swaying so hard that they were actually skidding the tires from side to side. I have also witnessed trailers swaying so badly that they ended up rolling the whole rig over onto its side.

Even a small trailer can make a light tow vehicle become uncontrolable.

The saving factor is electric brakes. If a sway situation starts and progressivly gets worse, you can reach down and manually apply the trailer brakes while trying to accelerate the tow vehicle. The action of the trailer trying to decelerate, and the tow vehicle trying to accelerate will almost always stop the sway quickly.

The disadvantage to surge brakes is the tow vehicle has to decelerate to actuate the brakes on the trailer. Not a good way to stop the sway.

On a side note, my brother had a camper that would always "wag its tail" on the way home from camping. We finally diagnosed the problem as the water tank being half full. It was mounted in the rear of his camper and if the camper started to oscillate, it would get progressively worse as the water in the half full tank would slosh back and forth with the sway. It would get so bad that he would have to almost stop the rig to get it to stop. Moral of the story, either fill your water tank or empty it before you leave.......
User avatar
DanD
Teardrop Advisor
 
Posts: 54
Images: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 7:49 am
Location: LA (Lower Atlanta)
Top

Postby denverd0n » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:15 pm

"...and then you get a non-proportional braking effect."

Not true. With modern inertia-sensing brake controllers you do, in fact, get a proportional braking effect from electric brakes.
denverd0n
Teardrop Advisor
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:52 am
Location: Colorado
Top

Postby Woody » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:46 pm

Is not a swaying (Dolphin kicking) trailer more of a weights and balances issue than braking. By having to much weight behind the axle instead of on the axle and immeadiately foward of it. Then factor in a crosswind buffeting the tow vehicle which amplify the movement of the trailer due to over control of the tow vehicle. I agree that appyling brakes on the trailer might help. Slowing down the whole rig works before it gets out of hand works too. The real problem starts with improper loading with to much weight behind the axle and or a high center of gravity on or behind the axle making for ultra light tongue weights. That is why teardrops have the axle set back because of the additional weight of the galley and a side benefit is to have a larger side door. Let's put it this way If you have to push your coupler down on the ball, you will have a problem down the road

Woody
Woody
The Tear Jerker's, Florida Chapter Director
E-mail: tearjerkerfla@bellsouth.net
Tear jerker chapter site http://www.tearjerkers.net/forums/
Check the SE section for gathering information
Tear Jerkers new site http://www.tearjerkers.net/forums/
Enjoying life in 12 ounce increments is what it's about
User avatar
Woody
2000 Club
2000 Club
 
Posts: 2006
Images: 26
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:07 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
Top

Postby BoilermakerFan » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:56 pm

Thanks guys. I was planning to have brakes on my TD regardless of how small it is. The Jetta is a small car. Heavier than most it's size, but still a small tow vehicle.

I appreciate everyone's posts and I think I'll stick with electric brakes. Dexter gives me the option to order the axle with brakes and a controller can go in the car. I s that all that is needed? Besides the wiring and installation of the hardware?

Do the controllers work with the anti-lock functions of the Jetta? Does any manfucture have a wiring harnes for Volkswagen vehicles similar to the ones for Ford, GM, and Dodge?

Brian
User avatar
BoilermakerFan
Teardrop Master
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Evansville, IN USA
Top

Postby Frank » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:09 pm

The Electric Brake Controler's that you buy now are very adjustable, how fast you want the brakes to hook-up and how hard you want them to brake. There fore you control how much and how fast you want the trailer brakes to work. They work independantly of the car brakes, by a pendelem and electronics. They hook up to the car brake light switch, a constant 12volt power source and a ground. There is a postive 12 volt wire that leaves the controler to the trailer brakes along with a ground. That's all there is to installing the controler. I have them on all my vehicles that have a trailer hitch. As has already been said nothing wrong with having too much braking power, but really bad things can happen if you don't have enough! Just my 2 cents worth

Frank
Let's go camping!
User avatar
Frank
Silver Donating Member
 
Posts: 423
Images: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:16 pm
Location: Aiken, S.C.
Top

Postby angib » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:01 pm

Thanks for all the explanations about electric brakes - most interesting. The manual trailer brake application to stop swaying sounds great.

Andrew
User avatar
angib
5000 Club
5000 Club
 
Posts: 5783
Images: 231
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:04 pm
Location: (Olde) England
Top

Next

Return to Electrical Secrets

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest