The great glue debate...settled??

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The great glue debate...settled??

Postby Joanne » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:53 pm

Hi all,

I was at Lowes the other day and found an article in Fine Woodworking that
should be of interest to all of us builders.

Over the years there has been a lot of discussion about various glues and
their attributes. To date scientific testing has been in short supply but Fine
Woodworking magazine has provided the first that I have found. In the
most recent issue (August '07) F.W. tested six different glues of which four
are of interest to us.


Here is a link to the article on theFine Woodworking website:


How Strong Is Your Glue?
We take six types to the breaking point, shattering some common wisdom in the process
by Mark Schofield
How Strong Is Your Glue?
View PDF
Membership Required

Glue is so essential to woodworking that there are dozens of types and
masses of competing brands. There is also a lot of "conventional wisdom."
To see if that conventional wisdom has any basis, Fine Woodworking ran a
test on six common types of woodworking glue -- a traditional yellow glue
(PVA), a Type I waterproof PVA, a liquid hide glue, a hot hide glue, a
slow-set epoxy, and a polyurethane.

We used each glue on tight, snug, and loose bridle joints in maple, oak,
and ipe, sending the glued joints to the Department of Materials Science
and Engineering at Case Western Reserve University for testing. Much of
what we learned was surprising. Watch a video demonstration of the
testing process by following the companion link below.

From Fine Woodworking #192

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Membership signuP for the mag to get access to online results. Good if your going to buy the mag anyway?
View PDF
Membership Required

pdf
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... 192036.pdf

Video presentation to show how tech they were in the tests.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=28853

Of course they don't give the results on the video, so I want to summarize them.

Results*
Type 1 PVA (Titebond III) - strongest
Slow set epoxy (System Three) - 99%
PVA (Elmer's carpenter's) - 95%
Polyurethane (Gorilla Glue) - 58%

The most surprising finding to me is that the Polyurethane glue is
much weaker than any of the yellow glues or the epoxy!


If you want all of the details you should grab a copy of the magazine and
or sign up on line for the magazine and get the results immediately.

Joanne
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Postby Dooner » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:01 pm

:x OH, CR@P! :x

Now 42% of my dang Generic Benroy is going to fall apart. @$%#&*$#'n gorillas. :?



:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

That is good to know but a little late for me.

Thanks though.
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Postby Joanne » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:09 pm

Hey Dooner,

I used my fair share of the stuff too. I don't remember exactly where, but I hope it wasn't in the critical joints! Sheesh!

Joanne


Dooner wrote::x OH, CR@P! :x

Now 42% of my dang Generic Benroy is going to fall apart. @$%#&*$#'n gorillas. :?



:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

That is good to know but a little late for me.

Thanks though.
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Postby Micro469 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:18 pm

Poly glue may be weaker... but when I had to take apart a bond , it still ripped the wood --not the joint. :)
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Postby tonyj » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:26 pm

Not to worry. In most cases the wood will fail before the glue does.

Unless you have made the shop trolls angry, in which case all bets are off and no glue will hold.

It's a magic thing, donchaknow.
Still graced with two eyes and ten fingers (due in no small part to luck!).

Just when you think a problem is solved, an uglier result replaces it.

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Postby Podunkfla » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:04 pm

Of course they don't give the results so I want to summarize them.

Type 1 PVA (Titebond III) - strongest
Slow set epoxy (System Three) - 99%
PVA (Elmer's carpenter's) - 95%
Polyurethane (Gorilla Glue) - 58%

The most surprising finding to me is that the Polyurethane glue is much weaker than any of the yellow glues or the epoxy!

Hmmm... Doesn't surprise me. I've never like Gorilla Glue & it's clones... harder to use. Joints have to be TIGHT or it doesn't work. I'm still a big fan of Titebond PVA glues (I, II, III are all good)... been using them for years and find them easiest to work with, cheaper at less than $20. a gallon, fairly long open time, easy clean up so it doesn't screw up stained finishes... And, of course, the strongest wood glue I've found short of the old Weldwood Resourcinal glue we used to mix up to build boats. That nasty stuff is waterproof and superawful strong!

They didn't mention PL urethanes & Silkaflex Urethanes? But they are darn good too... Particularly for outside stuff like aluminum flashing and windows. Or you could glue your floor to the frame with and forget screws... you ain't getting it off! Just good for some things cause it stays kinda flexible.

And, Like Madjack... I don't like any silicone caulk/adhesives (except for sealing aquariums).
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Postby emiller » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:25 pm

I think all glues seam to work pretty good it's how well you seal the wood from moisture or water.
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Postby apratt » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:38 pm

I have that mag. On all the glues they made 3 examples, one real lose fit, one real tight fit and one just right. The Gorilla glue came out on the bottom, Not to say it didn't hold. It still held like 600 pounds of something or another, so it still "works". The one thing I don't like about the Gorilla glue is the shelf life, it is very short and expensive. I'll stick with Titebond 3.
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Postby Miriam C. » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:55 pm

:phew: :woohoo: Boy am I glad to hear that. :D Still leaving my screws in cause it was real hot when I glued most of mine.

Thanks Joanne :thumbsup:
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Postby madjack » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 pm

...all the adhesives have their places and uses...while I don't feel that TBIII can be beat for WtoW joints, sometimes that is not possible...we did a lot of prefinishing and TBIII wouldn't work but the poly glues will...the bottom line was that they all worked and BE SURE to read and follow all directions for the application at hand...
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Postby Juneaudave » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:08 pm

I want the glue that works best on sloppy joints!!!! :oops: :oops:
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Postby Nitetimes » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:27 pm

Juneaudave wrote:I want the glue that works best on sloppy joints!!!! :oops: :oops:


So you put a drop of glue on th ends of your joints so nothing falls out till you get it lit?
You need more practice rolling. 8) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Dean in Eureka, CA » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:43 pm

Hmmm...
I wonder why Weldwood's Plastic Resin Glue wasn't in the mix???
I've been using that stuff since my high school days.
I like that it comes as a powder and you add water... You control the viscosity.
I do use Elmers Yellow Carpenters Glue and have been using the Titebonds too.
I'm with Brick on the Gorilla Glue... Tried it once. :thumbdown:
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Postby Nitetimes » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:47 pm

I've had better luck with the GG than I ever did with the WW.
I used to hate gluing anything until I started using GG.
It must be me cause I refuse to by Weldwood because I've never had anything stay together using it. :thinking:
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Postby Podunkfla » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:16 am

Nitetimes wrote:I've had better luck with the GG than I ever did with the WW.
I used to hate gluing anything until I started using GG.
It must be me cause I refuse to by Weldwood because I've never had anything stay together using it. :thinking:

Dang... Musta been a bad batch or souptin??? :o

When I was a teenager we built a 12' - 1/4"plywood boat (Glen-L plans) with Weldwood and just enough little nails to hold it together till the glue dried. We were gonna fiberglass the seams... but got itchy to try it out. Loaded it in a pickup hanging out the back with the motor & gas tank in the boat. Took off for Kingsley lake. The rope came untied (I wasn't a Boy Scout) and it flew out the back doin about 60... Skidded along the road a ways, hit the ditch, flipped a few times, hit a tree and threw the motor back in the woods! We still loaded the sucker up and went skiing! It looked like chit, but didn't leak! I fiberglassed it later on and used it for 3 or 4 years... and sold it. Weldwood is darn good stuff. :applause:
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