Questions about Gorilla glue

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Questions about Gorilla glue

Postby cracker39 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:43 pm

I'm considering using Gorilla glue for certain applications. I'm still going with the Titebond for attaching my skins to the front, back, and top. Before I ask my questions, I'm going to give you all of the details whether you want to know them or not...I just want you to know what, where, and why.

For attaching the sides to the floor, I have two attach points. One is the 1" x 3/4" strip that runs down the length of the side, 2" from the bottom. It will sit on the edge of the floor, with the side skins going down along side the side rail of the frame. That strip will be glued and screwed to the floor, which is bolted to the frame. Here is that diagram, looking from the front end of the trailer. There has been one difference since making this diagram. I will use poly sealant between the side skin and the frame, not construction adhesive.

Image

The 2nd set of attach points are at each end of each side. I've bolted a spar to the front and back end rails with 3 carriage bolts for each spar, with polysealant between the spar and the end rail. Then, the floor end is scred into the spar. Next, I will add another spar on top of the floor, screwing and glueing it to the floor. A filler strip will be put in at the end of the floor to smooth things out. This next diagram shows how that looks (or will look). The front and read bottom corners of the side skin will be screwed into both of these spars, two 3" screws into the end of the bottom spar, and one into the top spar. All of this should tie the sides securely to the frame. This diagram is looking at the front left corner of the side

Image


Where I am sonsidering the Gorilla glue is to glue the strip to the floor, and the side skins to the ends of those two spars front and back.

Now, after all that, we get to my questions. Having never used Gorilla glue,

1. How damp should one side of the wood be? Do you spray it on, wipe it on, or use some other method.

2. What is the purpose of the water in the first place? Does it help the glue cure?

3. If varnish gets on any of the wood, will the gorilla glue still stick the pieces together?

Thank you for your help. Any other comments or suggestions are welcome (I already know about stuff sticking to my skin, hair, clothes, etc., and to wear gloves...the hard way!)
Dale

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Postby Ira » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:04 pm

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Dale isn't building a trailer. He's building the Space Shuttle.
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Postby cracker39 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:11 pm

If mine turns out looking half as good as yours, Ira, I'll be happy. However it turns out, it won't have the classy look your's has.
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Re: Questions about Gorilla glue

Postby Artificer » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:15 pm

cracker39 wrote:...
1. How damp should one side of the wood be? Do you spray it on, wipe it on, or use some other method. I've done both. I sprayed/misted my inside skins before I attached them, so the glue would foam more. (un-uniform bracing thickness) A damp rag wiped across the surface is adequate.

2. What is the purpose of the water in the first place? Does it help the glue cure?

3. If varnish gets on any of the wood, will the gorilla glue still stick the pieces together?

Thank you for your help. Any other comments or suggestions are welcome (I already know about stuff sticking to my skin, hair, clothes, etc., and to wear gloves...the hard way!)


I attached my sides in much the same fashion. My bolting is a bit different, but close enough.

1. Instructions say dampen the wood. Factory reps (according to Wood Magazine) say that most wood has enough moisture in it to cure. Moistening the wood speeds the cure, but also increases foaming. Normal cure time with dampening is 4 hours. It took my sides over night to set without additional moisture.

2. Water is the catalyst that causes the glue to set, like the second part in the epoxy mix, or the small tube of hardener with polyest resin or Bondo.

3. If you try to glue two varnished surfaces together, the act like non-porous surfaces. No water gets in there, so it will not set. If one side is bare wood, it will set. If you only have spots of varnish, I wouldn't worry about it.

This stuff will set in the bottle from just the moisture in the air that works its way into the bottle as you use it. Its fairly forgiving. I've never seen the glue take more than 24 hours to set, even if its on steel or concrete.

If you have further questions, I'll dig out the glue articles from several wood working magazines I have at home.
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Postby Spadinator » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:19 pm

I have used Gorilla glue and I used a small acid brush to put it on and lightly dampened the other part to be joined. The amount of moisture I used will differ from yours......I live in a desert..... I used just enough to make the parts damp...not wet....sometimes there is enough moisture in the air to make it cure on it's own though it may take longer. Be careful though...the glue expands quite a bit. Make sure you use a minimal amount and clamp the crap out of it. It's work time is about 30 minutes.
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Postby fornesto » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:20 pm

The first thing that I noticed is that you are not connecting the plywood sides directly to the frame. You might consider drilling through both the side and the frame and putting a couple of carriage bolts through them. You might wait until the aluminum is on (if that's the case). I figured there would be a lot of force pushing down on the sides when the trailer tires hit a speed bump, pot hole, or just bounce down the road. A direct connection (besides the poly adhesive) might give a little assurance. I actually have little tabs welded under the side rails that the plywood sits on to give better support.

Second, Gorilla Glue is magic stuff. I kept a bucket of water and dipped the wood into before squeezing the the GG direct from the bottle. It's pretty thick, but warms up in the sun. Use sparingly as it does expand pretty good. You can cut off the expanded glue (its spongly and foam like) with a utility knife. I always used it along with screws, never instead because of this expansion.

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Postby Ira » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:27 pm

The other thing about GG is that amazing as it is, if your surfaces aren't really flush, it doesn't work like you would think. It DOESN'T fill gaps.

If you played around with two pieces of wood, and got a little seepage/wastage that's already dried, you'll see that the stuff crumbles and breaks up real easy.

Unless it's in your hair or on your hands, in which case it will stay for months.
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Postby Guest » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:48 pm

Dale,
I hope you left more clearence than what you've shown on the skin and the frame rail...
I was told to leave at least 1/4" and I figured otherwise... I figured I could easily get by with an 1/8".
What I did was just get too damn cute on paper.
I will be able to make spacing changes and make what I have work, but I'm planning on building a new frame instead. (Dropping about 100 lbs. of steel while I'm at it) :R
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Postby cracker39 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:59 pm

Dean,

I thought you'd want the side skin and sealant pretty close to prevent water from getting in. The sealant should press out the bottom, filling the gap well. So, why a quarter inch clearance between the plywood and the frame? I'm putting in poly sealant between the two, and that will probably compress to about 1/8". I plan on tightly clamping the plywood to the rail, then loosening the clamps while I put in the screws through the strip into the floor, to pull the floor and strip tightly together. Then, when the floor and side strip are secure, re-tightening the clamps on the side skin bottom and side rails.
Dale

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Postby Guest » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:36 pm

I discovered that it would have been much easier to build with some fudge factor to play with.
I didn't totally screw myself up, but I sure handcuffed myself a bit, getting too cute on paper.
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Postby cracker39 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:02 pm

Fornesto, I think your idea of bolting is a good one. I can cut a couple of pieces of 2" x 2" angle iron about 3-4" long, and bolt one to each end of each side. I can use a forner bit to counter sink through the skin and just put a carriage bolt through the framing into the angle. Then, bolt it through the side rail. Then, I can fill in the hole in the skin with bondo. Another design change has been made.
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Postby madjack » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:21 pm

...don't know about "varnish" since I haven't used any in 40 years but GG will definitely bond polyurethane finished wood together...we pre finished all our wood pieces before assembly and used Al angle as cleats and GG and I can assure you that bonds it does.......
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Postby cracker39 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:22 pm

MJ, Polyleurothane is the varnish I was referring to. Minwax to be exact. I am only applying it to the edges of the plylwood for now. I will have more screw holes to fill after I put in the spars, so I'm not spraying any on the outside skin until it's finished. I got a little of it on the wood where I'll put the GG.
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Postby greasywheats » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:30 pm

Picked up some PL Premium polyurethane construction adhesive/glue tonite at my local big box. It comes in the caulk tubes...it doesn't indicate any need to wet the wood...what is the difference between the two? and why go through the bother with the GG?
Thanks!
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Postby Artificer » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:54 am

greasywheats wrote:Picked up some PL Premium polyurethane construction adhesive/glue tonite at my local big box. It comes in the caulk tubes...it doesn't indicate any need to wet the wood...what is the difference between the two? and why go through the bother with the GG?
Thanks!


My personal thoughts on this... construction adhesive is used in addition to fasteners. An example is decking a floor or roof. The glue provides added strength, and prevents squeeks from slipping fasteners down the road. The glue will eventually set, but you don't demand that it sets within 4 hours. You probably don't notice that it took 24 or more hours to set. (never used it, so not sure of set times) The bottle of PL Polyurethane Premium Construction Adhesive I have in front of me says on the lable "Not recomended on polystyrene or ABS Tub Surrounds."

With the GG (or any polyurethane glue in a bottle) all you need is 8% moisture in the wood (according to the literature) and the stuff will cure. If you wet the wood, you get a faster cure. When you're sitting there with the thing in clamps, waiting for it to set, any un-necesary delay can be annoying. For spreadability, the bottle of GG wins hands down. For the maximum joint strength, you want 100% glue coverage of mating surfaces.
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