Paint Question

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Paint Question

Postby cracker39 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:29 pm

I used latex primer and didn't get the smoothness with spraying that I hoped for. Rolling was worse. Maybe my sprayer wasn't adjusted properly or maybe I didn't thin this primer enough with water.

I considered switching to oil-based which will spray better on siphon feed than the latex does on pressure feed. One web FAQ said you "can't put oil based over latex". Another says "Oil finish paint will bond to the latex or oil primer, but may not always work out so well over the latex due to the higher flexibility of the latex".

Maybe oil based primer will adhere to my latex primer after it's cured and been sanded. If it will, then I can spray oil based enamel for my final finish. Has anyone have any experience with doing this?

Does anyone know of a primer made for this purpose? I guess I'll go to HD and check with the paint person.
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Postby halfdome, Danny » Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:35 pm

I wasn't aware there was an exterior latex primer. Unless things have changed I was always told to use an oil based primer on exterior wood and I have never had a problem. Even if there is a latex exterior primer I would still use the oil base one. :D Danny
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Postby asianflava » Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:07 pm

I use an airless sprayer to spray exterior laytex. I really hate painting so I bought one specifically to paint my shed. After they were masked off, I painted my shed (16X10) and garage door in 45min. Of course, it took me another hour to clean it.

Maybe a Wagner will do a better job spraying that primer?
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Postby cracker39 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:12 pm

Zinsser makes the Bullseye 123 primer and it is latex based. I wish I had known better than use latex to start with. I'll see if I can find an oil-based primer that can be applied over this latex primer and get an oil-based enamel finish in a satin or low-lustre finish. The Zinsser primer is tough. I got some overspray on my tongue and after drying, it is a b**** to scrub off. I may have to repaint it with a spray can of silver enamel.

I did some refilling of the ply grain this afternoon and it sanded smoother this time. I have one side and the top to sand and recheck, then I can put on another coat of primer.
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Postby cracker39 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:30 pm

OK...I may be wrong about the Zinsser primer being latex. I re-read the entire label on the can, and nowhere does it say latex. It is water-based.

The ingredients are listed and include:

Acrylic Copolymer
Acrylic Resin
Ethylene Glycol
Limestone
Talc
Titanium Dioxide
Water
Zinc Oxide

Does that sound like latex paint?
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Postby cracker39 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:34 pm

FLASH...I went to the Zinsser web site and found out that the 123 primer can be painted over by ANY type of paint, so I am OK. I'll get a gallon of oil based primer to go over this coat, then oil based enamel for the finish.

What a relief!!!
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Postby rainjer » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:51 pm

I used to work for Standard Brands Paint before they close there stores in Washington state and I am no expert on modern paints but, as a general rule, I would not advise paint over latex primer with anything other than latex paint. :thumbdown:

Oil based paint in general penetrate into the wood to give them a better bond. It dries from the inside out.

Latex paint bond to the surface. It dried from the outside in.

Zinsser is a shellac based paint. Yes you can go over the latex but you are ultimately relying on the latex paints bond to the wood.

I think you would be better off stripping the latex & starting over with oil based primer.

Are you using a gloss paint?
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Postby goldcoop » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:25 pm

Can you even buy oil based paint anymore?

Seems to me I remember a recent change/mandate in the paint industry?

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Postby surveytech » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:57 pm

goldcoop wrote:Can you even buy oil based paint anymore?

Seems to me I remember a recent change/mandate in the paint industry?

Cheers,

Coop


I just used Zinsser and Behr oil based primer on my tear.
not a lot of choices though.
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Postby goldcoop » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:13 pm

surveytech wrote:I just used Zinsser and Behr oil based primer on my tear.
not a lot of choices though.


Yep, I think there is a line in the sand date that retail customers will no longer be able to buy oil based product or that manufacturers will stop making it for general use?

I understand Oil based enamels will be available for Commercial use?

I might have to surf around for some info.

OK I'm back and I'm not dreaming! Check it out:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01644.html

Cheers,

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Postby cracker39 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:04 pm

Well, I hope the oil-based primer and paint is still available for this project. I'm not even sure now that the Zinsser 123 is latex after reading that list of ingredients. And, the dried paint is unlike any latex I've ever seen. It is much harder than normal latex paint and doesn't have any rubbery feel to it. Besides, if the manufacturer says you can apply oil based paint over it, that's good enough for me. I'm NOT stripping the paint off that trailer and starting over.
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Postby doug hodder » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:29 pm

Dale, I would suggest a call to a local paint shop/jobber/supplier....those guys solve problems for professionals all the time....not to put the HD guys down, but they have a lot of knowledge on a variety of items and you need specifics...and you're out nothing on a phone call...I don't know what kind of finish you are wanting, but you won't get an automotive type look, (smooth,gloss, no orange peel) unless you get into the higher end latex materials and equipment, but maybe it's all changed in the last 5 years...just my thoughts on it......Doug
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Postby Micro469 » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:42 pm

Dale, I've lived in my house for twenty years now , and painted it with Semigloss latex paint when I moved in. I only repainted it ten years ago because THE WIFE wanted it a different color. I wouldn't hesitate to use exterior latex again, even use it in the bathroom instead of oil base....
John
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Postby GPW » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:12 am

Having been a professional Artist for 36 years , I've painted practically everything , and seen their conditions as they age .... I'm all for the new water based paints , latex, whatever... The oil paints were fine in their time , but the new paints (if you buy good paint ) perform even better ...I've done outdoor murals in latex that lasted about 10 years before drying out (oils only went 5Y in similar cond.)...in constant sunlight ... as Micro did , my house @6years looks like new... It's good stuff , and I definitely would NOT put it over oil base , or oil base over it .... sooner or later it's gonna' come off .... ask me how I know !!!! :roll:

Thing is , you have to be patient .... it takes Latex a week at least to harden , to where you can work it ...

want texture???, spray a light coating of household texture , mixed with a good glue like Tightbond 2 (doesn't take much ) works !!! when the paint is gone the texture will still be there...
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Postby EZ » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:23 am

Dale,

Here is a link to a thread I started about latex paint.

http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=6870&highlight=

From all of the research that I did a while back, 100% acrylic latex paint is superior to oil based for durability, wear and adhesion. I use latex primer and finish coat. On my sailboat I did seal it with thinned epoxy but I am going to use polyurethane this time. Then roll it on after a little sanding.

Not so sure about the lack of a smooth finish on your paint job. The sides of my camper are inexpensive plywood and I am afraid there will be a lot of grain showing through. Wish I had used luan, or better ply but I am trying to cut costs.

When I wonder about latex paint holding up I either look at my house or the laundry tub that still has (indoor latex) paint on the inside from years ago.

I wouldn't strip the thing either. :thumbsup:

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