Wall construction?

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Wall construction?

Postby riverfront » Wed May 17, 2006 5:47 pm

If I understand correctly from all I read(bunches) that there are two types of wall construction! Single sheet plywood and sandwich - I see on the many pages here and in PDF's what they look like and can figure out pretty much how each works but is there a link or thread that shows and tells me more about sandwich and it's construction?

Which type is best and why?

What is the weight difference?

What is the cost difference?

What else should I be aware of?

THANKS!
Bruce
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Postby Chris C » Wed May 17, 2006 5:59 pm

Bruce,

"Best" is what's best for you. Personally, I like the thought of an insulated trailer. Nothing worse than getting in a tiny box that's been stuck out in the sunlight all day and expecting to be able to sleep in it. On the flip side of that is to be on a winter campout and have to spend the night shivering out in the woods somewhere. Can't comment on cost
difference because I always wanted an insulated teardrop and didn't even investigate. My plan is to build with 1/4" inside and outside walls and 3/4" rigid insulation in the walls and 2" of foil/bubble insulation in the top. I'd say that would be lighter in weight than solid 3/4" walls..........but that's just an off-the-cuff opinion. I just think sandwich construction makes for a much better built trailer. But there have sure been a lot of really good trailers built with solid plywood. You might ask someone who's built with 3/4" plywood.
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Postby oklahomajewel » Wed May 17, 2006 6:08 pm

I'm building with weight in mind, def. want to stay under 1000# loaded.
I have the Kuffel Creek plans, but went with 1/4" plywood exterior wall, 3/4" insulation and will have 1/4 wallboard on the interior.

The Kuffel plans comment that insulation is not only for heat/cold but because your own body puts off moisture at night too. And I think it's great for sound , whether you have a movie cranked up or are a heavy snorer or someone hits the alarm putting and sets off their car alarm at Beavers Bend at 6 am. (sorry! But nobody really heard it - maybe because of the sound proofing of the insulation!)

I don't have the interior skin on yet, and only the lower of the galley walls and went ahead with the spars, but I can tell how much more rigid it is already.

Another consideration is where you'll be taking it and how rough you'll be with it.

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Postby Miriam C. » Wed May 17, 2006 6:38 pm

Riverfront
I did a cost for the following
5 x 3/4 x 10'
4 x 1/4 x 8 with insulation and framing
5 x 1/2 x 5

They all came within $50 of each other. The sandwich cost the most but that was my choice of insulation and framing.

I would say the best is determined by body style, and your needs.

Weights are similar. the 5'x3/4"x 10' is about 20# heavier depending on framing and the number of screws you put in.

As Joanne said insulation is important in extreme weather. You could however line with cork or similar material and it might be as good.

Miriam
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Postby riverfront » Wed May 17, 2006 10:18 pm

Thanks! Chris, Julie and Miriam!!!

Looks like the only drawback to sandwich is the extra time it takes to build it? I will also have to plan thing ahead better too!

What is a good thread to show the steps I need to follow and do my planning? Pics and such!

Again thanks all! This planning is fun when there is so many here to help!
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Postby Chris C » Wed May 17, 2006 11:12 pm

Invest in Steve Frederek's CD Manual............................it'll answer most every question you could ever ask.
Chris :D

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Postby Miriam C. » Thu May 18, 2006 12:11 am

Riverfront,
If you can afford it and have any doubts about your shop skills Steve Fredericks shop manual (on CD)
Steve Fredericks site (see Steve Fredericks is building again)


http://www.asolidfoundation.com/ This is Joanne's site it is great.

mikenchell.com - Mikes web site has lots of builds

Gosh---and all the others. I have read for months and they get mixed up in my head. They are all good...

Check out the design lib. above

I printed the Generic Benroy because it is a step by step and can be used with almost any shape. Good detail.

print when you see pictures of something you think you need. You will forget. (at least I do) A notebook is a good place to start.

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Postby Sonetpro » Thu May 18, 2006 4:32 am

If you decide sandwich. Don't forget blocking for cabinets, lights,fenders,vents and anything else you plan on attatching to the wall.
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Postby Todah Tear » Thu May 18, 2006 7:51 am

I built using the sandwich method:

1/2" ply
1/8 recycled fabric reinforced with fiberglass expoxy
1/8 pine on exterior
1/8 laun on interior

The roof:
1/8 bead board
1/4 foil/bubble wrap type insulation

I built the sides walls first and then had someone help me lift them onto the trailer for mounting. It was easier to stain and seal them while they weren't mounted. However if I were to build a sandwich wall again (..and I am not finished build this one yet), I think that I would build my wall directly on trailer.

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Postby Ira » Thu May 18, 2006 8:11 am

3/8" ply walls, 1 by 2 framing sticks to have something to stick the insulation and wires in, and 1/8" beaded birch "paneling" inside and out.

The thing is solid as a rock, even with such light materials. And after Hurricane Wilma, where boats were flown all over the boatyard, the only thing that happened to it was the tongue jack swung out of position and the tongue was resting on the ground.
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Postby TRAIL-OF-TEARS » Thu May 18, 2006 9:28 am

I guess I will chime in on the solid 3/4" ply. I mostly went with solid sides because of ease of construction, also that is how Camp-Inn builds theirs. As far as insulation I only have 3/4" in the ceiling nothing in the floor. I have noticed that if the trailer is in a little shade even in 100+ deg it is nice and cool inside, fire up the A/C and you could hang meat. 3/4" plywood seems to be a good sound barrier too, we camped right next to the RR tracks at the Gallup NM KOA and I only heard the trains when the wife was coming and going to the rest room, granted the beautiful (I really do like the sound) sound of the air conditioner might have been covering any outside noise. Another plus to solid walls is if you ever want to add a shelf or anything you can just add it there does not have to be any blocking there. My roof is sandwich construction and my walls are solid, I know if the whole thing was sandwich construction I would still be building it. Just thought you should hear the other side. I don't think either way is better, it is what is better for you. Good luck
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Postby jmtk » Thu May 18, 2006 11:05 am

Hi Bruce,

I opted to go with a sandwich construction for being lightweight and insulated. I've gone thinner than a lot - 1/8" birch ply inside and out with 3/4" framing and insulation. So my walls are an inch thick. After purchasing the plywood and before assembly of the walls, I was a bit concerned that I made a bad choice because the 1/8" ply by itself was pretty floppy. However, after putting it all together, it's really quite rigid and I'm happy with it. My sidewalls are 4x8 and a Benroy profile, and weigh 51 lbs each including doors, windows and latch hardware. Now I still don't have the trailer body assembled (just the sidewalls), so I can't attest to its durability over time, but I'm comfortable with my choice. I'm also going sandwich construction for the ceiling (1/8" inside and outside with 1.5" spars and insulation), and floor (3/8" top and 1/8" bottom with 3/4" framing and insulation).

I'll also recommend Steve Frederick's shop manual. I'm using his "inside-out" method and inner door seals. Those ideas alone I think are worth the cost. I purchased the Kuffel Creek plans, too, but by comparison, have used very little out of them. But I like looking at the pictures :)

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Re: Wall construction?

Postby asianflava » Thu May 18, 2006 3:14 pm

riverfront wrote:Which type is best and why?

What is the weight difference?

What is the cost difference?

What else should I be aware of?

THANKS!


The first question is the hardest. You have to decide that one before you start.

I compared my panels to standard ply when I was finished. I think they weighed 1/3 less.

The cost is pretty similar. I used 1/8in luan for the faces which is pretty cheap.

Sandwich walls are more labor intensive and takes some planning. You have to know where things will attach (shelves, bulkheads, etc) before you build your wall. There is an easier way which involves using 3/4in ply as the center structure, but I've heard the the ply isn't actually 3/4in thick where insulation is. One more thing, if you're gonna stick build it, don't use furring strips, they are not 3/4in.
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Postby Finntec » Thu May 18, 2006 4:45 pm

My walls are 1/2". It was easy to build. If you have the time, skill and funds, I would recommend making a sandwich construction side. The insulation will be worth it for sound, heat/cold condensation, and running electrical wires. That is what I will do on my next TD build. -Ray
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Postby riverfront » Thu May 18, 2006 6:21 pm

Thanks everyone for the great responses!!!

Looks like I have a shop manual to order! Sounds like it is almost a requirement for a beginner - should be on the first line of every building plan!

Sandwich looks to have more pros then cons but with the high humidity arround here, condinsation could be a problem with just plywood sides so sandwich it is!

So many ways to do walls as sandwich but the unit is it's streangth so the least amout of weight is the best way for me to go with 4x8 HF I have comming!

Thanks!!!
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