Electric Trailer Brakes

[Section 8]

Alright, since I could not think of a better place to put this... Here it is:

I am planning on using electric trailer brakes, but an not thrilled about picking out a controller for them. So far I have come up with the Jordan Ultima. It is a propulsional controller that opperates off of a cable connected to the brake pedal. I can't use a pendulum controller as the trailer will be seeing alot of hills.

My vehicle does not have ABS, and I have read in a few places that after the advent of ABS that "they" stopped making hydraulic pressure sensing brake controllers. Was "they" just a company or two, or was it an industry wide end to them? DOes any body know of a current model that just uses brake line pressure (I don't want that $1200.00 thing that senses everything including the load in your pants to see how fast you want to stop)?

Thanks.

[sdtripper2]

Section 8:

Breaks run by cables going back to the trailer are few and far between
here in the USA. Now Andrew (angib) has more information on their use
over in the Eurp zone.

Now as far as Electronic breaks go:

Try some of these links to get in the ball park and then ask some more questions.

Brakes
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=4026
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=3376
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=1138
Danny's Dexter breaks
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=11020
Electric Brakes! Which end is up?
http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=12823

[Section 8]

I guess I have a hard time describing it. It is a regular electric brake controler, but instead of guessing what you are doing via piezo gyroscopes or pendulms, it has a short cable that connects to the brake pedel and it senses how "hard" (far) you apply the brakes, and actuate the electric trailer breaks accordingly.

The Jordan site is down, apparently they have been bought by CamCo, so that likely has something to do with it, but here is a website that talks about it:

http://www.bestbrakecontroller.com/

I would like to use one of the now "old fasioned" hydraulic controlers that run off of your line pressure in your brake circuit to determine how hard you are breaking and thus apply the electric trailer brakes. I have been unsucessful in locating one.

Thanks.

[Gerdo]

I have electric brakes on my TD, love them. So far every trip that I have taken has taken me through the mountains. Great feeling having the tug of the trailer going down hill. I remove my controler to prevent theft. If I'm making local/flat runs the TV brakes do just fine. I am using the Prodigy by Tekonsha. Great controler, maybe overkill but worth it. Once you know the voltage for best braking your set. I've used the cheaper green/yellow/red light controlers and it seams like your always adjusting it. Search around, you can find the Prodigy for $90.

[brian_bp]

The Jordan Ultima applies braking power which is proportional to the distance the brake pedal is depressed. This isn't ideal because changes in boost change the pedal travel required to have a given braking effect in the tug... which is why responding to the tug's hydraulic pressure is better. Still, some users of this product swear by it.

Systems tapped into the tug's brake lines to read that pressure seem to be nearly gone. The BrakeSmart from Master Brake may be the last holdout. The auto manufacturers don't want devices interfering with their increasingly sophisticated braking systems, so the aftermarket gave up on what was a common approach. I didn't get the BrakeSmart because I had not found it at the time I bought a controller, and I would be hesitant to tap into my new van's brake system, anyway.

The Ford (and perhaps GM) built-in brake controllers do respond to brake line pressure, but are only available on "heavy duty" (SuperDuty Fords, HD from GM) pickup trucks (and maybe SUVs).

The closest remaining thing I've found is one system which responds to the force of your foot on the pedal, using a pressure-sensitive pad. This is the EVO from Sens-a-Brake. It makes a lot of sense to me if the BrakeSmart is not available or practical for your vehicle. Read their website and you'll know as much as I do...

The hills don't eliminate systems which are proportional to acceleration. Skip the old pendulum-based designs, and pick anything using a two-axis accelerometer, such as the extremely common Cequent (Tekonsha) Prodigy or their newer P3. I use a Prodigy, and believe that it's a critical component of the braking system and in no way is it "overkill".

[brian_bp]

Anyone really interested in the Jordan design could check out US Patent 6050649 (a recent one from Hensley), and follow the citations to find the actual Jordan design, but basically your foot pushing the pedal does the same thing as your hand sliding the manual control of any electric brake controller.

[brian_bp]

The Jordan site is down, apparently they have been bought by CamCo, so that likely has something to do with it....

With the Camco connection, I was able to find the
Jordan at Camco Manufacturing.

[sushidog]

I just installed electric brakes on my trailer today. I'm installing the controller tomorrow.

I chose the Primus proportional brake controller by Tekonsha. It's got the same circutry as the Prodigy, but is easier to set-up. I got mine from from RVWholesalers.com for only $82.75.

[Leon]

I run the Prodigy on my truck and find it easy to use considering part of the time the trailer is loaded with a car and the rest of the time it's empty and needs muck less braking.

[jimqpublic]

A definite vote for Prodigy here. Our car weighs a bit over 3,000 pounds and the trailer is over 2,000. With the Prodigy it slows and stops as if no trailer was there. With my previous controller- DrawTite Activator II it was a nightmare- Either not enough or too much braking.

[asianflava]

Got the P3, it is pretty reasonable. I bought it from Automotive Accessories Connection. Since it is over $100 the shipping is free.

It is only $13 more than the prodigy but it comes out cheaper because there is a manufacturer's $20 rebate. Other than it being slightly cheaper, I like the looks of the P3 better than the Prodigy. Black, Blue and Gray, why the blue buttons? Also since there aren't buttons on top, I could recess it into a cubby hole. Check to see if there is a wiring harness for your vehicle, installation is plug and play.

[sushidog]

Asianflava,

It looks like you got a really good price on the P3 with free shipping and rebate. Who did you get it from? The best price I found for a p3 was $150.

I like the really clean installation. However, is it mounted close enough so that you can manually apply your trailer brakes if it starts to sway? It looks like a stretch from the driver's seat for me.

[asianflava]

Here's the link:
http://autoaccessconnect.stores.yahoo.n ... etrbr.html

It is easily reachable unless there is something a Super Big Gulp in the front cup holder. You can still reach it but you have to go behind the big ole honkin cup. They put 3 cup holders between the front seats so it isn't a big deal. The third one is supposed to be for the cup shaped ashtray but since neither of us smoke, it is a cup holder now.

For my vehicle, they have a pre-made harness available, wiring literally took 10min. Nine of those were fishing the harness from the kick panel to the center of the dash. It does come with a universal harness that you can use for any car.

[Section 8]

The hills don't eliminate systems which are proportional to acceleration. Skip the old pendulum-based designs, and pick anything using a two-axis accelerometer, such as the extremely common Cequent (Tekonsha) Prodigy or their newer P3. I use a Prodigy, and believe that it's a critical component of the braking system and in no way is it "overkill".

My vehicle is a 2006 Wrangler Unlimited. It has a manual transmission, so when I want to coast the trailer brakes might come on (I read that high drag vehicles with manual transmissions will "trick" these controllers when letting off the gas at highway speeds) particularly with the high engine revs aiding compression braking.

Also, for off roading pursposes, I want extra hill holding with the trailer, instead of having it try and push me down steep inclines, so when I am on the brakes, the trailer is braking too, even when I am not moving. Lastly, with a high pucker factor (and at times the conclusion of the above problem) you get the best braking on loose surfaces at low speed when your tires can lock and start furrowing the surface. In these cases, with out ABS, with a trailer providing no brakes behind you because you are sliding at a constant (albit slow) velocity the trailer will push you faster and likely jack knife. This I have witnessed a few times in the winter on steep boat ramps coming onto a frozen lake, with and with out ABS, and witnessed several WHOOOAAAA!!!!s through the windshield on faces as it almost happend.

This is why I would like a hydraulic pressure sensor, but the pedal sensor would be OK. I don't really need the brakes to brake safely with a <2000 pound trailer, but I would like to use the 12v to charge a battery, and to have the advantage of having the brakes on the trailer when they can really help.

Thanks for all the help. I didn't mean to be evasive about what I was trying to do, I just didn't think that I would get so many people who would help out.

[jeepr]

I see you are already set on what you want.

I don't think you need to over-complicate the process. You are not going to be towing a particularly heavy trailer (unless you build some 3500 lb teardrop) The brakes on your unlimited are plenty strong to stop and hold a small trailer. It would be an added measure of safety and easier on the Jeep brakes to install trailer brakes. Just my opinion, but get a quality brake controller and call it good.

Good luck with whatever you decide.